Folding AK vs. 2 all -ins

[patrick dicaprio]

This was an interesting decision by everyone involved I thought and i present it for comments:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed)

Button (t5845)
SB (t3720)
BB (t2420)
UTG (t3500)
UTG+1 (t2625)
MP1 (t3640)
MP2 (t2490)
Hero (t2760)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t200, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls t200, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t2420</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t2625</font>, Hero folds.

Flop: (t5345) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Turn: (t5345) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

River: (t5345) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t5345

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows Qd Kh (one pair, kings).
UTG+1 shows 9c 9s (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t5345. </font>

[The4thFilm]

I really like raising all in with AK. I don't like calling all ins with AK, especially 2.

[Dominic]

I might call one all in with AK, especially if I have him covered by a decen margin, but never 2. You're almost always behind.

If you're shortstacked, of course, you push and take your chances.

[patrick dicaprio]

i should have retitled my post--i thought the play of the two guys in the pot was more interesting.

Pat

[adanthar]

Why didn't you raise? If you had, I think this hand has a good chance of turning out very differently.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like raising all in with AK. I don't like calling all ins with AK, especially 2.

[/ QUOTE ]


Result

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=437559
pokenum -h ac kc - 9c 9s - qd kh
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Kc 494966 36.11 862718 62.94 13070 0.95 0.365
9s 9c 594658 43.38 772065 56.32 4031 0.29 0.435
Qd Kh 268060 19.56 1089624 79.49 13070 0.95 0.200

36% chance to win, that's 3% above and even split of 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. I didn't realize that AK suited was such a weak hand against 2 all ins.

What hand would it be good to call two all ins with? AA is obvious, inless if your in 4th place as it's financially benificial to fold it of course. But are any other cards good for calling two all ins?

[donny5k]

My thoughts exactly. Always raise with AK in a shorthanded pot. This looks like you were slowplaying it.

[The4thFilm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really like raising all in with AK. I don't like calling all ins with AK, especially 2.

[/ QUOTE ]


Result

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=437559
pokenum -h ac kc - 9c 9s - qd kh
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Kc 494966 36.11 862718 62.94 13070 0.95 0.365
9s 9c 594658 43.38 772065 56.32 4031 0.29 0.435
Qd Kh 268060 19.56 1089624 79.49 13070 0.95 0.200

36% chance to win, that's 3% above and even split of 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. I didn't realize that AK suited was such a weak hand against 2 all ins.

What hand would it be good to call two all ins with? AA is obvious, inless if your in 4th place as it's financially benificial to fold it of course. But are any other cards good for calling two all ins?

[/ QUOTE ]

AA or KK.

If you play QQ then at best you'll have a coinflip with AK and a smaller pocket pair, and at worst be against AA or KK.

This is assuming a full table and similar stacks, of course.

[patrick dicaprio]

the reason i didnt raise is that i was fairly sure i would be reraised, as both the blinds were raising frequently all in. i have 13 BB or so, so if i raise to 800 and am reraised i take a coinflip for all of my chips. which i didnt want to do yet.i am sure that these players wouldnt have folded, as evidenced by the play of the KQ.just because the book says to raise doesnt mean you have to.

pat

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
the reason i didnt raise is that i was fairly sure i would be reraised, as both the blinds were raising frequently all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is great, because you're a 2:1 favorite most of the time. Unless you were planning on folding when they raised all in anyway...in which case, you can just fold now (and then never play poker again.)

[ QUOTE ]
i have 13 BB or so, so if i raise to 800 and am reraised i take a coinflip for all of my chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they are raising all in frequently, why do you think this is a coinflip?

[ QUOTE ]
which i didnt want to do yet.i am sure that these players wouldnt have folded, as evidenced by the play of the KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you *don't* want KQ to call or reraise you all in?

[ QUOTE ]
just because the book says to raise doesnt mean you have to.

[/ QUOTE ]

In order to say this, you would have to understand why the book says to raise in the first place. Based on this post, I don't think you do.

[Tosh]

Whatever your reason, not raising the AKs with position was a bad error.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
i should have retitled my post--i thought the play of the two guys in the pot was more interesting.

Pat

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd worry about your own play first.

[durron597]

If you had raised, and if BB had still raised allin, UTG+1 probably would have folded to a raise and a reraise, and you would have been HU against KQ. As it was, since the BB had been raising so much, UTG+1 probably thought that he was on crap, and reraised allin himself to get you out of the pot (get you to fold a hand like TT-JJ (maybe QQ? since he had limp-reraised). Alternately, if BB had chosen to flatcall you or fold, then the 99 would probably have either flatcalled as well, or folded (assuming you have a tight image), in which case he probably would have never gotten to see the turn assuming you pushin on that flop.