I need help dealing with a horrible run of cards

[what]

Ok, so I start playing poker online about 2 weeks ago. Everything started off great. I started by throwing $40 into pokerroom, and within a week turned it into over $200 playing at .25-.5 (I was 4-tabling and got this equated to around 5000 hands, maybe not the best sample but its not too bad, i guess). I then move to party due to some promotions they were offering and because of how fishy the players there apparently were.

After a few days on party (playing 5ish hours a day at .5-1) I had built my bankroll over 400, but started getting a run of bad cards. It wasn't too bad, but it was my first real losing streak and it frustrated me. It wasn't effecting my play, I never really went on tilt at all. It was just alot less fun playing while losing.

So I took a break from ring games and tried some limit SnGs. I tried a few limits and eventually settled down on 20+2. I was doing fairly well in them. Again, it was only a small sample but it built my confidence up. I soon returned to the ring games, though I still played SnGs a few times a day.

By now I had built up my bankroll to almost 800 (mainly from the SnGs) and started getting bad beats again in the ring games. Getting bored of losing constantly I decided to move up to 2-4 (I skipped 1-2 because I read on this site that it's tougher then 2-4).

The first 3 or 4 hours of 2-4 were great, I won a few hundred dollars 4-tabling. Since then I've been on a HORRIBLE losing streak. I just can't seem to win any pots this has been going on for 2 days, and after 3,000 hands I'm losing 3 BBs/100.

I really wish I could blame this loss on tilt. I really can't though. While my playing might not be perfect, I defiantly shouldn't be losing this much. Should I? My bankroll is completely slaughtered now and I'm not quite sure what to do (down to a hundred and change). I guess I'm going to have to move back down and slowly build my way back up, but the Idea of going back to .5-1 doesn't appeal to me at all. Anyone have any advice for what I could do? I don't think I can take a few days off without being bored.

Sorry to whine at you guys, feel free to post your own bad run stories here to make me feel better.

[Cerril]

Simply, it's just a bad streak. Maybe you're a little closer to an even money player than you'd thought, but it's easy enough to explain a small loss like that in terms of some bad cards and your good cards turning into bad beats.

It's possible you made some very, very small bad decisions that allowed your good hands to get outdrawn, but even if you didn't you aren't looking at needing to chalk everything up to bad play.

When I hit a terrible streak, I almost invariably go 'back to basics'; I'll analyze my hands, reread my books, just make sure I'm not making bad plays.

Otherwise I'm not sure what else to say. I know a post like this is begging for a harsher reply though.

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
I was 4-tabling and got this equated to around 5000 hands, maybe not the best sample but its not too bad, i guess

[/ QUOTE ]

First mistake. Take the time to do it right. 1 table, analysing your every hand and the hands of your opponents. Keep stats and notes. Gradually (after 10k hands maybe add 1 more table, etc)

[ QUOTE ]
So I took a break from ring games and tried some limit SnGs. I tried a few limits and eventually settled down on 20+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

2nd Mistake. Get good at one thing before trying another. Ring games and SNG's are 2 seperate animals.

[ QUOTE ]
Getting bored of losing constantly I decided to move up to 2-4 (I skipped 1-2 because I read on this site that it's tougher then 2-4).

[/ QUOTE ]

3rd mistake. If you can't beat .50/1.00 or 1/2 you can't beat 2/4 and the higher variance will kill you. Take your time at each level, learn how to beat each. The experience will help you as you progress. Your 5k hands are essentially nothing. You have no idea if you can beat even the .25/.50 levels.

[ QUOTE ]
but the Idea of going back to .5-1 doesn't appeal to me at all

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you are not in the right mindset. Moving down to rebuild and rethink is an essential skill to have in your poker career.


Jim

[cnfuzzd]

Feel ok. Check this out. Real Men With Real Problems (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=holdem&Number=845025&Forum =,,,,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=8& Limit=25&Main=844087&Search=true&where=&Name=2961& daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertyp e=&bodyprev=)
peace

john nickle

[cnfuzzd]

i just realized i omitted some much needed advice.

Reconsider that your game might be the problem. Then do it again. Then look at your PT stats. Then reexamine your worst session and worst hands. Its hard, but even if your game is good, downstreaks can emphasize leaks and mistakes, making them easier to discover and eliminate.

But 20000 dollars is a lot of money.

peace

john nickle

[1800GAMBLER]

Looking back over that losing streak it was about 80% due to the worst deck i have ever seen and 20% to the fact i was playing bad.

Before i started 8 tabling the 15/30 ring i was 4 tabling 10/20 6m so really i was almost getting the same number of hands/hour, yet somewhere along the line i started hand reading a lot less/less detailed, i played a very simple 'i have an overpair, i bet' fashion. I'd say over 8 tables i should have been a 1.5bb/100h winner given the way i played, so comparing that to how much i lost shows it was bad cards. However if i played my A game just over 4 tables i would have been more of a 2.5 - 3bb/100h winner which would have helped a lot.

It was also at the start of me learning limit, before that streaked i had only really played about 30k hands of limit, i had play a lot of higher stakes NL though. So yea, it was an awful run, but i think at the 300bb point most players should start to question their play a lot. That's not to say it's not possible i still know of a lot of great players who have had +300bb losing streaks in the 15/30.

Anyhow, in my streak i was requesting nearly every hand i was involved in and spending ages after it analysing them. I also checked through a random 3000 hands to make sure everything was fine. There were errors but it wasn't anything major. So as advice to the orginal poster you should check over your hands a lot away from the table, analyse what's happening, post them, rethink, replay. Having logged only 5k hands as a winner it could easily be your play rather than a horrible losing streak. I also hated the idea of moving down in stakes, but i had to set an amount in which if i hit i'd drop down, luckily things switched around.

As a side note, the losing streak did once again numb me to money and make me understand EV more. I can easily justify that losing streak of $20k yet i feel stupid if i play $50 buy in nl drunk and fool around. Oh yea, i also had a mid-session swing of $11000 at $100/$200 in less than 30 minutes the other day. But if you look at it in terms of BBs it's not that bad, plus i finished ahead. In the same day a good player dropped $40k.

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I start playing poker online about 2 weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read this statement over a few times. My God, you have only been playing 2 weeks and you have been bouncing around different formats and limits like a madman. (And 4-tabling to boot!) Pick a game and a limit you feel comfortable with and then play it until you can crush that game for an extended period of time. Then, you can move up to the next limit.

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
...Getting bored of losing constantly I decided to move up to 2-4... I really wish I could blame this loss on tilt. I really can't though.... My bankroll is completely slaughtered now...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you stepped up in levels and then bled through your bankroll before stepping down, you were on tilt IMO. Bankroll managment is as important as how you play your cards.

[Blarg]

That was a great reply, 100% on the money.

[Blarg]

Party 2/4 is very wild, and it's true that it's much looser than 1/2. I've got over 26,000 hands of 1/2 and over 11,000 hands of 2/4, so that's an adequate base to judge from.

You definitely need a solid bankroll to be at 2/4. The tables can get just crazy.

Happens no matter how you play, too. Yesterday I got AA four times and lost all of them. Same with QQ. Lost trip kings, jacks, aces, lost half my full houses, it was nuts. Today I had an even more insane downward streak, but I won my way back to being down just 70 bucks. Again, same crazy thing...almost nothing I need to hit hit, and almost every time I had a good hand, someone hit a better one.

But the previous three days I did great, and am still well ahead. Actually through all that disaster I'm still ahead over a BB/hr. I multi-table, and if you combine my tables, I'm ahead more than that.

But it's just the nature of the game and the nature of multi-tabling.

Heed some of the advice here. 5,000 hands is completely meaningless. I don't think even 20,000 really means too much. And when you move up levels, cut back the number of tables you play. Not doing so is a terrible way to try to learn. Play fewer tables and watch your opponents more carefully. Make notes! They can be as good as gold, but it's hard to make really good notes playing 4 tables at once.

And play one game at a time. Go play the SNG's with a separate bankroll at a different site or something, or keep your SNG money clearly separate in your own mental accounting from your ring game money. Same if you play NL ring games. Separate and concentrate if you want to learn. If you just want to have fun, I don't know if poker's for you at all, but if so, then do whatever the heck you want and who cares how fast you improve.

But if I were you I'd work up the experience of 10's of thousands of hands.

And not by 4-tabling a new limit as soon as you move up.

[Lawrence Ng]

Why don't you play longer and then come back and tell us how you are doing. Your hours and numbers are just insignifigant right now.

[what]

Thanks alot for all the responses.

It looks like I definitely took took things too fast. Now it looks like I'm going to have to start over, and this time I'll be sure to do it right (10k more hands of .5-1 before moving up)

I did review a couple hundred hands last night on poker tracker, and while I noticed a few hands that I would have played slightly differently, there were no blaring errors. Just not the best play, and I understand that these could have added up, especially while multitabling.

I also noticed a large amount of bad beats. You guys are right, 5k hands is just too small a sample. I guess I was just impatient, but, as I learned the hard way, impatience does not belong at the poker table.

Well, I'm off to single-table .5-1.

[Leo Bello]

U sounded like most players. Enter have a good streak, then lose everything cause thinks is rocking the game. Well... at least u didn´t lost everything.
anyway, you seem to have learned the lesson.
enjoy every step of the way. Play, play, play. Read, read ,read. Move up not only based on bankroll, but also on experience gathered so far.
Analize your hands.
On a side note, I guess 90% of Poker players begin like you did. Then, the ones that really like and understand the game, improve by means of what everyone here tried to point out.
You are already ahead cause u know 2+2, you study, and you have stopped to think, instead of reloading 100 dollars more and losing it again.
:-)

[dogmeat]

First, I agree - two weeks of play is nothing. However, you may or may not be a winning player for the long run and might have just been lucky at first. Regardless, you need to start back at .50/$1 and prove you can win. Pride can be a heavy weight on your back.

I've been playing online for 11 months, and full-time since January. I had a bad run at $5/$10 two weeks ago and spent twenty hours playing $1/2 to get my head back on straight, then played $2/4 the last dozen hours or so - and I feel great. My play is much better and I stopped worrying about losing. Try the lower limits again, see what happens, you have your whole lifetime to move up.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[KidPokerX]

Maybe this will make you feel better. While in school last year I build a 14k bankroll. I came back home this summer deciding to take a little vacation from the game. I soon got bored and wanted a little extra cash so i started playing ... I started the summer with the worst cold run of cards combined with beats so bad you would wake up in a cold sweat. Anyways, within a month I had lost it all. Fortunately a few days ago I won the refer-a-friend drawing on Party Poker, so they put $500 in my account. Moral of the story: You can make cupcakes out of anything. You know what I mean /images/graemlins/tongue.gif Just hang in there with me.

-Brian
3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Ulysses]

What games did u lose 14k at?

[cnfuzzd]

he didnt lose so much as he won several hundred hands of strip poker. The problem is he was playing with hookers....

peace

john nickle