How much more for Ichiro?

[offTopic]

SportsCenter sez - if Ichiro goes over 240 hits this year, he'll become the first player to do that twice in a career since George Sisler.

He's got 170 this season, and 832 for his career (as of 5p, PDT, 8/6/04). What totals would he have to achieve to get into Cooperstown? How much weight would you give his numbers in Japan, given his performance here (as well as the performance of the many Japanese pitchers)?

[Boris]

Why is Ichiro hitting in the lead-off spot? This doesn't make any sense at all. He should be hitting 3, 4 or 5. He could be so much more effective if the Mariners used him properly.

[jwvdcw]

My opinion is that his Japanese numbers should count towards his Japanese HOF induction but not towards his MLB chances at all. Its a different league.

[BeerMoney]

Ichiro is my favorite player in baseball. The guy can run, throw, field, hit, and sort of hit for power, AND we don't have to listen to him talk! Bottom line, the guy is nasty. He's one of those guys that's gonna produce runs for a team.

He may get into Cooperstown just on his play here, along with his social implications of being the first Japanese superstar position player. Maybe this is a stretch, but I think the fact that he showed Japanese players can come over here and kick ass is kinda like Tiger Woods winning the Masters. It doesn't receive the same media attention, but it is somewhat analogous.

[kerssens]

[ QUOTE ]
He should be hitting 3, 4 or 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, he hit in the 3rd spot before the all-star break for a week and he did a good job....the problem is Randy Winn is the only other Mariner consistently hitting and at that time he wasn't hitting so nobody was on base for Ichiro to knock in....since Ichiro is the only consistent threat at least he can be on base so somebody might possibly knock him in....his recent streak has been amazing to watch, two straight 50 hit months and 8 for his first 12 in August shows me that he'll probably make it 3 straight

[SlyAK]

If he continues to produce similar numbers for 3-4 more years he seems like HOF material to me.

Not to dis Ichiro, but he has to have the UGLIEST swing in MLB history!!! Not that that matters, since he is a hitting maching. The guy flat out produces runs through his speed and base stealing and saves a lot of runs by his play in the field. Hadn't heard as much about him this year, (probably since the Mariners are so far back,) but his stats are again incredible.

Sly

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is Ichiro hitting in the lead-off spot? This doesn't make any sense at all. He should be hitting 3, 4 or 5. He could be so much more effective if the Mariners used him properly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Anybody who gets as many hits as Ichiro does will do well in the middle of a lineup, as Ichiro did when he was there. However, he's got more potential at the front of the lineup than he does in the middle. Here's why:

1. He has great speed, and therefore is more likely to score on hits behind him than others are from his hits.
2. His speed makes him a distraction to the pithcer when he's on base, which gives the hitters behind him a better chance to get a pitch to hit.
3. He doesn't have nearly as much power as you'd like to see your 3-5 hitters have.
4. Many of his hits are infield hits that (a) wouldn't score runners from second, or (b) become fielder's choices when other runners on base get thrown out.
5. He's not particularly good at 'moving the runner up.' When a runner is on 1st w/ nobody out, he seems to not be able to hit it to the right side on hit-and-run plays.

Of the reasons listed above, I think 4 and 5 are the most impactful.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
...the problem is Randy Winn is the only other Mariner consistently hitting and at that time he wasn't hitting so nobody was on base for Ichiro to knock in....since Ichiro is the only consistent threat at least he can be on base so somebody might possibly knock him in.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, that wasn't the problem at all. Ichiro in the middle of the lineup was never meant to be a permanent fix. Bob Melvin put him there to shake things up a bit and try to get his other hitters going. The Mariners were never going to make it unless the typical heart of their order (Boone, Olerud, Martinez, Ibanez) started producing. Moving Ichiro to 3rd in the lineup was a ruse to shake them up.

[mikech]

Ichiro will end his 4th season here with around 900 career hits in the majors, that's pretty astounding. Considering the fact that he's only 30 years old, he should reach 2,000 hits rather easily if he stays healthy and plays at least another 7 or 8 years. He collected almost 1,300 hits in Japan, those simply can't be ignored when his career is over and the time comes to weigh his achievements; add to that his historical importance as the first Japanese position player to play in the major leagues and I think he makes the Hall if he gets to 2,000 here.