A Simple Decision

[Zeke]

In a party .5/1 game with 10 players. Holding KQo directly to the left of the player under the gun who has come in for a raise. A friend of mine admonished me earlier today because I folded in this spot. There was a good mix of players behind me, a couple live ones who were absolute nutcases (VPIP of 60+), a few calling stations and a couple solid players. The man under the gun was pretty tight and I was inclined to respect his raise. My friend's thinking was that if I hit a hand I would get unreasonable action so it was worth a call even if I was a dog before the flop. I don't see how I can call here though, honestly I don't think I would even if I was suited. Any thoughts on this?

[Brian]

You're right, your friend is wrong. I'd call with KQs though if the table really is full of live ones, as long as they aren't really aggressive wild ones. You don't want to have to call 2 with this hand and then call another 2 before the Flop.

KQo is trash to an UTG raise though, especially when you're UTG+1.

-Brian

[btspider]

turbo-muck and fold the next hand for good measure. fear the tight UTG raiser. if the entire table was going to come along, then KQs would be playable.

[cold_cash]

You probably would get "unreasonable action" if you flopped top pair, and most likely it would come from the player UTG.

[tiltaholic]

Hi-
Definitely I fold.
Tight UTG limps, and I am UTG+1 - I raise, but I could be wrong.
-t

[Brain]

I raise too...if I have something good, but not KQo.

[flexus]

Are you limping or folding it?

[Brain]

I toss them back to the dealer and say "Return to Sender, address unknown."

[tiltaholic]

Really? If you're UTG+1 and UTG folds and you have KQo what do you do? I would raise...

Perhaps I'm too aggressive with KQo...

[Octopus]

If it were me raising UTG, you would do well to fold AQo.

Against a tight raiser, the BEST case with KQo is that you are a slight underdog against a pair of jacks or perhaps AJo. More likely, you are dominated. Worse yet, you have no idea which. As another poster implied, if you do manage to flop a pair of kings with this hand, you'll likely just pay UTG's AK or AA a bunch of money. This is a fold.

On my aggressive days, I'd reraise a known loose raiser, but more likely I'd fold then too.

[Brain]

I read too fast and missed what you said.
I'd probably limp after the UTG limp or fold.
But NPAEM says to raise KQo in any position, but fold it to a UTG raise so I'll be trying that more often. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
But NPAEM says to raise KQo in any position, but fold it to a UTG raise so I'll be trying that more often. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Careful. Ed says to raise KQo in any position in games which routinely have 6+ seeing the flop. That doesn't describe many of the games I've been playing in. I think raising versus calling with KQo is a close decision in any case (and therefore not worth that much time worrying about). To call a raise with KQo, I'd have to be in the big blind, against a possible steal, or playing with an extremely loose raiser.

[Brain]

[ QUOTE ]

Careful. Ed says to raise KQo in any position in games which routinely have 6+ seeing the flop. That doesn't describe many of the games I've been playing in. I think raising versus calling with KQo is a close decision in any case (and therefore not worth that much time worrying about). To call a raise with KQo, I'd have to be in the big blind, against a possible steal, or playing with an extremely loose raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry to hear that. You pretty much summed up the games I've seen this week though. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Octopus]

Where are you playing?

[Brain]

Uh oh, are you putting me down as one of those loose raisers now? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Just the usual Party 0.50/1 and Stars 1/2 (I usually tighten up a bit over there though)

[bisonbison]

Guys, KQo should be a raise for you in any unraised pot. It should be a fold against most sane raisers.

[Sent]

Yeah if UTG had called I would raise. If UTG raises I would fold.

-Sent

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh oh, are you putting me down as one of those loose raisers now? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all; just wondering where all these super loose tables are. I have been playing Party 1/2 and see an average of 4 to the flop.

[HajiShirazu]

Just remember, most people raise with AA-TT, AK AQ AJ KQ. You don't want KQ against any of those.
I think against many of my raises and some of the others on these boards, you could almost play AQo against their raise though.