Trip Tens and yet more wussiness

[Jimbobobb]

keep going on the river? The guy limp/called a cap pre-flop I was kinda confused, and by the end was sure he had K's.


Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

River: (24.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 28.50 BB

[BradleyT]

The call is fine - the pot is plenty big at this point however I'd put him on 33 or 77 way before KK based on the preflop play.

Even if you have the best hand, not getting 1 more bet out of him isn't a huge error. Huge errors are things like raising him and folding to his cap on the river.

[detruncate]

Where's the wussiness? Wussyness? Wussiness? Whaever. You could raise the flop, but everyone save BB is tied to the pot already, and you're not exactly swimming in outs. Swimming in outs? What's that supposed to mean? You don't have much in the way of draws. Let's leave it at that.

As far as the river goes... is villain the type to see the flop with 46 and go aggro with the gutshot? How about slow-playing KK? The point is, you're most often way ahead when you spike your set. Calling a river raise can be reflexive, but take a moment to figure out what you might be behind to. I think you can safely 3-bet.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
you're not exactly swimming in outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can correctly call everything except a 1 outer on that flop.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you're not exactly swimming in outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can correctly call everything except a 1 outer on that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. Calling is obviously fine. The point I was trying to make is that raising wouldn't do much to help things.

[smartalecc5]

raise and raise is what i would do.

[BradleyT]

Right but a raise isn't horrible if it knocks out a hand like AQ or AJ or QJ although any of those hands would be making an error by folding a 20+ bet pot.

He gains about 6-7% more equity by having AQ or AJ or QJ fold so he's gaining more than 1.2 chips in equity by raising, although he's risking being 3-bet.

And there's no huge reason to think he's behind on the flop.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
Right but a raise isn't horrible if it knocks out a hand like AQ or AJ or QJ although any of those hands would be making an error by folding a 20+ bet pot.

He gains about 6-7% more equity by having AQ or AJ or QJ fold so he's gaining more than 1.2 chips in equity by raising, although he's risking being 3-bet.

And there's no huge reason to think he's behind on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're correct. But who's he going to knock out? The only person not trapped is BB. If Villain could be counted on to 3-bet we might lose CO or Button, but how often will one or both fold once they've already put one bet into a pot this big? If Hero was next to act after Villain (or even one closer), I'd be much more inclined to raise. But with 2 already committed and only one 'undecided', I'm not sure that a raise will accomplish much.

With a bet and two callers, I don't think we're too confident that we're ahead here. Which isn't to say we're behind. Just that I'm not sure that the raise is for value, and I don't think we're folding anyone already in for 1 bet.

[Peter Harris]

i wouldn't make them for KK. You picked one of the 2 hands [64 also] that beats you. With 2nd set here on such a board, i'll cap and take my chances.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[HajiShirazu]

I would have played the same way on the flop as you did given the action. However, if one of the later position players had bet, an argument can be made for a checkraise on the flop or turn and then automatically betting subsequent streets if no overcards to your pair come. While this can be a stupid and expensive play, you only have to fold a better hand and have the best hand yourself an extremely small percentage of the time for it to be correct.
Also you need to cap the river here. It would take five or six bets on the river before I would just call given the action and even that may be weak.

[vulturesrow]

I think the flop play is fine. However, I wouldve 3bet the river. If you lose, so be it. You are going to be ahead so many times here that you need to do it. The only exception is if you have a very strong read on UTG+1 and even then, you should still probably go ahead and 3 bet it.