Monsters under the bed or realistic slowdown? [Archive]

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Songwind

08-05-2004, 11:47 PM

I hadn't been playing long so my reads were a little shaky. MP3 was pretty LAG, but MP2 had half a brain so I figured he had a decent hand.

Paradise Poker 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Songwind is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG folds, UTG+1 (poster) checks, Songwind raises, MP2 3-bets, MP3 caps, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, Songwind calls, MP2 calls.

I called the cap thinking that I would not get involved in a raising war after the flop unless I hit trips or a reall strong draw.

Flop: (18.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Songwind bets, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Button calls, Songwind 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Whoo!

Turn: (15.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Songwind checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Button 3-bets, Songwind calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

I put MP2 on Ax, possibly AA, so I slowed down.

River: (27.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Songwind checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Songwind calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 31.25 BB

I suspect I already know the answer here - I can't get any information if I don't bet out.

Songwind

08-06-2004, 01:22 PM

Bump - would really like a little feedback.

Transference

08-06-2004, 01:31 PM

Were you looking to c/r the turn until it came back 3-bet?

I think calling the turn isnt to bad but not raising the river is a mistake, sure lag could have caught his wheel, but your likely ahead here and you will almost certainly have callers. Were you refferring to leading out on the turn for information? I don't think you should be leading out for info there, I think you should be leading out hoping to be raised.

Fnord

08-06-2004, 01:34 PM

edit: cap every street.

Only if the stakes were higher would I slow down.

DMBFan23

08-06-2004, 01:38 PM

well, it looks like MP2 and MP3 both love that A, so it's highly unlikely that one has AA and the other is betting an AK...more likely is an AQ and an AK, or even AK AK. either way, I think you gotta keep pushing. the times that A-rag or AK/AQ/AJ will pay you off on this far outweight set-overset IMO

chief444

08-06-2004, 01:39 PM

My take:

The action from both MP2, MP3, and Button makes it more unlikely that any one of them has AA. I would cap the turn. I would have led the turn to start with though. I would also bet the river. I certainly would not be worried about the straight here (although anything's possible). I'd be surprised if you didn't win this pot.

chief444

08-06-2004, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well, it looks like MP2 and MP3 both love that A, so it's highly unlikely that one has AA

[/ QUOTE ]
Beat me to it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Songwind

08-06-2004, 01:42 PM

If the stakes were higher - because it's more money, or because microlimit players are st00pid?

Songwind

08-06-2004, 01:43 PM

You're right, in retrospect. I hadn't even thought about from the angle.

Songwind

08-06-2004, 01:45 PM

I did, indeed, win the pot.

MP3 shows AKo, MP2 shows AJs and Button shows Axo (9 or T I think) and MHIG

Retrosquatter

08-06-2004, 01:46 PM

At the turn, I would have bet out instantly, but then when the THREE WAY action started up after me, I would then slow down and simply call. So don't worry about slowing down on the turn, the other players are doing all of the raising for you anyway...

My worry would be about what the MP2 and the Button players are holding... what do they have that would make them suddenly become so aggressive on the turn after being so passive on the flop?

Trips are very hard to lay down, but at the turn you have about 9 outs to a full house (disregarding your assumptions of what the other players may be holding), so there is no way that I am letting this hand go, especially with the size of the pot now.

On the river, I would have raised the MP3's bet. The Button and the MP2 don't feel that their hand is strong enough to raise, so the only player you have to beat is the LAG. Get more money into the pot, but only if you think you have the LAG beat. From the looks of it, you have the MP2 and the Button beaten.

chief444

08-06-2004, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At the turn, I would have bet out instantly, but then when the THREE WAY action started up after me, I would then slow down and simply call. So don't worry about slowing down on the turn, the other players are doing all of the raising for you anyway...

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero missed out on at least 3 BB's here by slowing down to soon. I worry when I make a 3 BB mistake. That's pretty significant.

Retrosquatter

08-06-2004, 02:01 PM

Do you mean that he slowed down to soon on the river, or earlier than that?...

All of the action happened on the flop/turn and it was capped both times there...

chief444

08-06-2004, 02:12 PM

The turn. It was not capped but should have been.

Fnord

08-06-2004, 02:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If the stakes were higher - because it's more money, or because microlimit players are st00pid?

[/ QUOTE ]

More often out of line, particularly pre-flop.

Retrosquatter

08-06-2004, 02:45 PM

But on the turn... the Button player three bet it. The turn was capped... or have I misread the hand description? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

chief444

08-06-2004, 02:50 PM

3-bet is not the cap. 4-bet is (3 raises after the initial bet).