max gain from quads by raising the flop? [Archive]

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chio

08-05-2004, 10:44 AM

no reads on opponents

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (15.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB
Main Pot: 17.50 BB, between UTG and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (17.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows 3h 3d (two pair, nines and threes).
Hero shows 9h 9s (four of a kind, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 17.50 BB. 

fast playing the flop here standard?

EverettKings

08-05-2004, 10:59 AM

This depends a bit on how loose or weak SB and UTG are here, but against typical opponents I'd wait until the turn to raise, for a few reasons. First and foremost, YOU HAVE TOP QUADS, so for the love of god let them make their flush draw or catch a big pair or something. Second, you don't want to knock out UTG (who may well fold to a SB 3-bet): not raising ensures that you have two opponents that have a chance to hit the turn.

The only problem is that waiting until the turn to raise reeks of a 9. This is where I'd really have to evaluate my opponents: against stronger opponents I'd raise the flop as you did, and against typical to weak opponents (who are less likely to smell a rat on a turn raise) I'd wait until the turn. With a beast like this you want to keep people in to catch up, but it's hard to not set off any warning bells when you do get your money in. JM2C...

Edit: Now that I think about it, I don't think they will easily give you credit for a 9 when you raise and call a 3-bet preflop, so now I lean even more towards waiting until the turn to raise.

chio

08-05-2004, 11:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This depends a bit on how loose or weak SB and UTG are here, but against typical opponents I'd wait until the turn to raise, for a few reasons. First and foremost, YOU HAVE TOP QUADS, so for the love of god let them make their flush draw or catch a big pair or something. Second, you don't want to knock out UTG (who may well fold to a SB 3-bet): not raising ensures that you have two opponents that have a chance to hit the turn.

The only problem is that waiting until the turn to raise reeks of a 9. This is where I'd really have to evaluate my opponents: against stronger opponents I'd raise the flop as you did, and against typical to weak opponents (who are less likely to smell a rat on a turn raise) I'd wait until the turn. With a beast like this you want to keep people in to catch up, but it's hard to not set off any warning bells when you do get your money in. JM2C...

Edit: Now that I think about it, I don't think they will easily give you credit for a 9 when you raise and call a 3-bet preflop, so now I lean even more towards waiting until the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah that's pretty much what i was thinking, that a flop call and turn raise would reek of a 9. so i figured i was getting in 1 raise on the turn anyway, might as well raise here and disguise my hand while letting him play back at me with a possible overpair, and trap the other guy in the middle with a draw

also a bunch of scary straight and flush cards could come on the turn and ruin my chance to get multiple bets from a big overpair

2000Flushes

08-05-2004, 12:56 PM

I think that was well played, and not raising the flop would have been a mistake

The Setup

08-05-2004, 02:28 PM

I would play exactly the same way I don't think you could have gotten anymore money out of your opponents.