3-betting QJs on button

This hand occurred a few nights ago playing 9-18 at commerce.


A loost UTG player raises. he has horrid raising standards. Sometimes, I think he just flips a proverbial coin in his head, and if it lands on either heads or tails, he raises. One MP player calls.


The middle position player is moderately unknown to me. He's shown down one hand where he cold called a raise, and it was w/ KQo. He's a fairly tight player, and I'm sure that he comes close to beating the game. But he's tilting ever so slightly here.


I have QJs on the button. I feel like I can make an arugement for folding, calling, or raising. But for once in my life, I decided to err on the side of aggression, and I 3-bet. The SB calls me. He's very very very passive, a true old man, but had been somewhat tight up to this point (foreshadowing?) UTG calls, and MP calls.


Flop comes Ts 8h 7d.


I flop two overcards, a gutshot, and a backdoor flush. It gets checked to me, and I check. Why? Well, I obviously don't have the best hand right now, UTG loves the checkraise, and the SB grabs chips when the flop comes. he has a T, or 87. I'm not gonna shake him. When he flops top pair, he's pot-stuck.


Turn is a 7s.


Board is T 8 7; 7. Two spades.


I still have my gutshot, two overcards, and I've picked up my flushdraw. Again it's checked to me. Here, i check, because I feel that it will be obvious that the turn didn't help me, and in reality, I still have utter crap of a hand, albeit high in potential. I'm also trying to set the record for "weakest play of a hand in history".


River comes a Q.


Hmmm, do I like that card?


UTG now bets. MP calls, and it's on me.


The possible hands are:


UTG: AQ, KQ, AA, KK, QQ, J9, TT, 88, 77, QT, QJ, and the list goes on. Some hands I beat, some i don't.


I'm honestly more worried about MP. I think he has:


AQ, KQ, TT, or 99. Those are honestly the only hands I can put him on.


So I fold. I'm thinking UTG has a Q at the very least, and MP can at least go to battle w/ a Q, and I don't like my kicker.


the SB calls also.


Showdown:


UTG has Q9o, for a pair of Qs and 7s, T kicker. MP has QJo, and SB has KTo, for a pair of Ts. MP wins, and I would have chopped if I had called.


Now, obviously, if I bet the flop and turn, I may be able to lose MP (although, without any additional pressure, he may not fold his gutshot on the turn, since he'd be closing the action), and win the pot outright.


What are your thoughts? Please, don't mix words, and declare that I did in fact play this hand like an anemic gnat.


Thanks,


Josh

You could have bet on the flop or turn (especially the turn). With the range of hands you mentioned for the the other players, a call on the end is mandatory.

Mikelow -


Because of the range of hands I mentioned, I feel that a call is completely uncalled for. Best case scenario, I'm chopping, and thus only winning 3.5 big bets. I don't think that this is gonna happen over 28% of the time, which I'd need to show a profit.....


But yeah, playing aggressively seems to maybe me a little bit more wiser a lot than being so dang passive, eh?

If you have a relatively tight image at this table, then I like the 3-bet pre-flop, otherwise I'd dump it...it's a drawing hand and you haven't got enough customers.


Having 3-bet and not gotten popped back at you, I would've bet the flop, not cuz it's "automatic" but because you're representing an overpair already, and I'd want to keep that perception alive and also find out where I am. Also, if the LAG does check-raise, he may knock out MP and set up SB to fold, thinking that he may get caught in the middle of a betting war.


Having not bet the flop, I would've bet the turn as I think it unlikely that someone going for a check-raise on the flop would risk it getting checked around again...barring any tells to the contrary, I would take it at face value and interpret it as weakness on part of the other players and fully expect to lose a couple of them with a turn bet. If you do get check-raised on the turn, particularly by the SB, you can put them on hands with some confidence and go from there.


The betting going as it did on the river, I think I would've made a crying overcall, getting around 8-1 odds...in most of the games I play in, any overpairs or trips already would've revealed themselves before now, so I'd feel relatively safe in doing so.


Back to battle,


Riker

Just pay on the river. Don't think about it. Put in your bet and see if you're beat.

If you are going to show aggression pre-flop then not bet the flop or the turn then why play? Secondly, there is not a monster behing every bush. You will have to put money in the pot when you don't know if you have the best hand on many occassions. Even if you aren't going to bet the flop, you should of made a play for the pot on the turn; you have outs if called and you could of shown down on the end if you didn't buy help.`

i think you played it fine except i think you should overcall on the river because there is just enough a chance that utg has nothing or Q-no kicker and that mp has an even worse hand (any pocket pair?). the hands you put mp on here dont make sense. they sound like the only hands he could be overcalling with, not the only ones he could make the first call with.


in fact you may even want to raise the river because it will look like you slowplayed a monster and you may get a better hand to fold (unlikely at 9-18 but perhaps worth a shot in this particular case).


i like your preflop 3 bet because it helps you take control of the hand and i like your check on the flop and turn because there's nothing really to be gained against this particular field by betting.