KINGS, committed HALF STACK PF in nl, flop is AQJ....

[roma12]

partypoker 25 nl. bb=.5, sb=.25.

i have KK, raise to 2, guy makes it 5, i make it 12, he flat calls...i have position on him-hes in the BB, im MID.
flop is aqj, rainbow...he checks....i have 14 stack left, he can match me... what do i do

[unagi]

tough decision, since this guy has obviously shown some strength and could easily have AK, AQs, QQ, JJ, AA, etc.. although i am not a great source for this, as i have a lot of trouble dealing with this situation, i would say that you might at least check on the flop. there's a chance that he might want to let you take a stab at it. any hand that is beating you will call you, and there might be a slight chance that a worse hand will take a stab on the turn. this is a tough situation, in my opinion.. chances are that unless he's a huge fish, he probably doesn't have a 10, so a K or 10 might save you.. however, there's a good chance that he has you beat on the flop (unless you think he's the kinda guy who will go deep on a small pocket pair)

[bsiu5]

First thing i think you have to have a plan preflop on what your gonna do. it seems like you put yourself pot committed before the cards came out. That's fine, but your cowboys aren't strong if an Ace hits. Are you willing to lay them down? if you aren't then you go all-in after the flop. the flop did you no good AQJ. But, really you were gonna be in a bind if any over card showed except a K. it sounds like you think he may has JJ or QQ. i would think the same as well. he reraised you preflop. His play is a typical over card pocket pair. you committed 1/2 your stack and you already knew he had something based on his raise. i would have gone all-in preflop so you wouldn't have to be put in a tough situation. even if a QJrag came out you have to think after he checks he has a set. so you'd still be in a tough situation and be hoping that a K shows up. if you reraise him your representing AAA. it would be a touch whether to call even though his set is inferior. but you showed weakness preflop by only raising 1/2 your stack so i would have called. if you raised all-in, he has to think you got bullets or cowboys to his QQ or JJ. either way your putting him with a choice lay down or let destiny decide.

my only thing was you raised enough for him to call this preflop. you might have well gone all-in, you lose just have to re-buy and move on.

[JrJordan]

bsiu, I'm not quite sure what other plan of action you're suggesting preflop. He raised 4xBB, which seems fairly reasonable. He got reraised to 10xBB, nearly a fifth of his stack. If our hero pushes all in here, he's only going to get called by the hand that beats him, AA. Reraising to $12 is fine in my book. Anything higher than that and ALL weaker hands will fold.

You mention that he didn't have a plan beyond preflop because he's pot committed himself. I'll bet this isn't true. On any non A flop, it becomes very easy for him to push all in because it's only a half pot sized bet. More often than not he'll be called and end up the winner. This is a very rare and dangerous flop. Plans need to be flexible enough to change. I think committing half your stack preflop gives enough flexbility to get the money with the best, and still be able to get out on a rare scare flop like this. To summarize... preflop goot.

Flop: It's hard to give advice on this because I don't know how the villain will act. Fortunately, you have position, so you can get a somewhat decent read. If he pushes into me, I vomit a little in my mouth then hit the fold button. Look at the possible reraise then call hands that beat you: slowplayed AA, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, AK. The only hand I can possibly see you winning against is an awfully played KQ or TT. Neither of these are very likely has they wouldn't warrant a PF reraise. I look to check it down to the river. Any decent bet on the flop or turn and I fold. If he doesn't bet until the river, I MIGHT be willing to make a call if I feel he's trying to buy the pot.

[bsiu5]

JrJordan has a point. i guess for me i play KK like AA. that gets me in trouble alot with AK and AA though. but i would fold this hand and live another day if i played with a $12 raise. i just was under the impression that he wouldn't lay down his KK no matter what hit besides being AAx or something. if i do have a bigstack i would raise liek how he did though. i just thought with $25 KK seems like an all-in.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
bsiu, I'm not quite sure what other plan of action you're suggesting preflop. He raised 4xBB, which seems fairly reasonable. He got reraised to 10xBB, nearly a fifth of his stack. If our hero pushes all in here, he's only going to get called by the hand that beats him, AA. Reraising to $12 is fine in my book. Anything higher than that and ALL weaker hands will fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

What are you suggesting he do? Flatcall? Bet half his stack then fold when his A hits? Pushin is easily the correct decision. Besides, this is NL25; AK/QQ/JJ will almost certainly call, as will AQ a lot of the time and AJ some of the time. Though that flop sucks for all three of those hands, but at least you got the money in when you were ahead.

[ QUOTE ]

This is a very rare and dangerous flop. Plans need to be flexible enough to change. I think committing half your stack preflop gives enough flexbility to get the money with the best, and still be able to get out on a rare scare flop like this. To summarize... preflop goot.


[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't. An A flops often enough that only getting in half your stack preflop is a bad play. You're also giving odds for a hand like AQs to call with a flopped flush draw with only the half pot bet. You have to push in to protect your hand and get your chips in with the best of it.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: It's hard to give advice on this because I don't know how the villain will act.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to give advice on this because you didn't push preflop and now you have a tough decision to make. Pushing preflop prevents that tough decision.

[ QUOTE ]

Fortunately, you have position, so you can get a somewhat decent read. If he pushes into me, I vomit a little in my mouth then hit the fold button.


[/ QUOTE ]

Good job. You just folded half your stack away.

[ QUOTE ]

Look at the possible reraise then call hands that beat you: slowplayed AA, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, AK. The only hand I can possibly see you winning against is an awfully played KQ or TT. Neither of these are very likely has they wouldn't warrant a PF reraise. I look to check it down to the river. Any decent bet on the flop or turn and I fold. If he doesn't bet until the river, I MIGHT be willing to make a call if I feel he's trying to buy the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This happened to be one of the worst possible flops; but as you said yourself such a flop is very rare, and that's why you want to get your chips in the middle with the best of it. When he calls you preflop, and this flop comes, you say "oh well, I played +EV poker", rebuy, and get him next time.

[durron597]

AAx is a better flop for KK than AQJ, because with AAx mathematically he is more likely to have a hand like QQ/JJ than he would be on an Axx board. But that doesn't matter because he should have pushed preflop.

[roma12]

a couple of you said to go all in pf after he makes it 5..because i have the best of it...

5 is not a huge raise. alot reriase to this with aq and ak. going from 5 to 25 i think would make a lot of hands fold. i dont want them to fold, and i am not afraid of the flop after i commit half my stack, unless it is the one just mentioned. an ace on the flop yea might cause me problems after committing half the stack, but assuming he has an ace and catches one on the flop, i'll still take my chances from the huge raise becuase most of the time that ace wont come.

any flop without an ace im not dumping.

as far as the actual hand: he checked the flop, i checked back-not sure that was great. then he led 6 on a blank turn.
i dumped.

[JrJordan]

Durron, I'd be all for pushing all in if the pot was bigger. The problem is that an all in is a HUGE over bet. There's only $7 in the pot right now, he's betting near 3 times amount if he goes all in. The only had that could possibly call that is QQ, and maybe perhaps a awfully played AK. Hands like AQ and JJ get out way too easy. You make it way too easy to let a hand like JJ get away. A reraise to $12 gives him awful odds to go for the set, but is still small enough that he'll stay in.

You're right, pushing all in preflop makes the flop a very easy decision, because there is none. The villain either folded or called with a hand that most likely beats you. A good NL player faces tough decisions sometimes because they're trying to maximize EV. This is one of those cases IMO.

[JrJordan]

Just read the results... couldn't have played it any better. Nice hand!