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Stu Pidasso
08-05-2004, 03:11 AM
Here (http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video_wmv.html) is an anti Kerry ad from these guys. They make Kerry look like a total dirt ball; worse than Clinton. How bad do you think this ad and upcoming book is going to hurt Kerry? Why are we not seeing this in mainstream media?

Stu

jokerswild
08-05-2004, 04:42 AM
Hi Stu,
To answer your question.It hasn't hit the main stream media because it's a pack of lies. Drudge and the dirty tricks squad are spreading disinformation. They already tried the lie about a sexual affair with an intern. It didn't have legs.

It shows that Bush is getting desperate. If these lies were true, then we would have to believe that senior officials in the military permitted a 27 year old officer to hoodwink the establishment because he planned to run for President 25 years later. Talk about conspiracy!

The popular vote is very close, but the electoral college clearly favors Kerry.

If Bush steals the election again, then he should give the Statue of Liberty back to France. For one, the French made it. All right wing kooks know that the word freedom must replace the word french in every American idiom. The real reason that it should be returned if Bush wins is that the French would represent a better example of liberty.

El Barto
08-05-2004, 05:07 AM
Michael Moore's movie did not get a lot of press in the media at first (no one wants to be first when they know they would be promoting propaganda). Once one major media source comes out with it, then the other news organizations will report on it. But it will take a few days to get widely discussed. The original major media coverage my take the form of an editorial or op/ed piece.

Question:
Which is the less truthful propaganda piece: F911 or Swift Vets?

GWB
08-05-2004, 05:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Question:
Which is the less truthful propaganda piece: F911 or Swift Vets?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you actually watch the ad (link in Stu's post) you will see that all that these guys are saying is "I was there and Kerry's version of facts is wrong". There is no propaganda here, at worse it is a he said/she said situation.

Most of the witnesses present in Vietnam disagree with Kerry's self-serving statements, that is pretty compelling evidence of Kerry lying about his record. Or are we going to dismiss all these witnesses' statements in an effort to boost Kerry?

GWB
08-05-2004, 08:38 AM
Update:
The Kerry campaign ran a much-hyped “Band of Brothers” photo of Kerry with 19 other fellow Vietnam Swift Boat commanders, which implied all 19 support Kerry’s bid for the presidency. All 19 did not support Kerry – only two did.

Today, Iowa Presidential Watch has received information from Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth (www.swiftvets.com) that states: “We have new information that Ralph Dobson in fact considers Kerry unfit.”

So, now Kerry is down to just one of the 19 Swift Boat commanders supporting him.

We have updated the photo-graphic to show the truth about Kerry’s amazing photo fraud.
link (http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/KerryTales/KerryFraud2.htm)


http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/images/swiftboatUpdated2.JPG


[b]Kerry is Unfit, by a 12 to 1 margin!

adios
08-05-2004, 09:42 AM
Following orders isn't a suitable defense. Kerry has made a big blunder promoting his military service for the following reasons:

a) It's not an issue that people care all that much about, more potential downside than upside. It happened over 30 years ago. It's relevancy to the election seems debatable to me.

b) The circumstances surrounding his service is a legitimate issue due to his promoting his military service. The first Purple Heart was questionable and from what I understand the circumstances surrounding his medals and their legitimacy is going to be addressed by this anti Kerry group. Reporters have looked into his record previously but apparently didn't come up with much. Perhaps the current administration's Defense Department who may view Kerry as someone that they don't want in office will be able to provide some historical info that was previously not readily available.

cardcounter0
08-05-2004, 09:53 AM
I think this guy supports Kerry.

"I'd be a total fool to ever question John
Kerry's heroism -- if not for him, I'd be dead."
--Jim Rassmann, saved by Kerry in Vietnam

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 10:29 AM
the reason why the right wing hasn't been trumpeting this story is because once they do that, then comparison will be made between Bush and Kerry during vietnam,. Bush's people are smart, they know Bush's record is bad during vietnam, so the less attention that gets the better they are. I am not sure if Kerry's record is great (I have heard several people who served with him both supporting him and against him) so for me, this is a non issue, and those that served with him that are saying anything are only doing so for political reasons.
I repeat, it's a BS non-issue.

astroglide
08-05-2004, 11:41 AM
the "lies" they are talking about are his alleged comments about war crimes/unfitting behavior of swift boat crewmen. not his military stuff. as stated before, i don't believe the military bs from either side is changing a single vote.

cardcounter0
08-05-2004, 11:50 AM
Correct. The leader of this group was the guy that debated him on the Dick Cavett show back in 1971 about his anti-war stance. These people have had an Ax to grind for decades. I'm surprised they don't drag out Lt. Calley to denounce him.

Interesting that all 5 crew members who actually served with Kerry on his boat under his command all support him.

These are the same groups that smeared John McCain during his run. Meanwhile during the time of the Vietnam War back in Texas, when ever it was time to go get more beer, Bush was always first to cry, "Send Me! Send Me!".

jcx
08-05-2004, 12:33 PM
I believe this will be discussed and debated on Hannity and Colmes tonight.

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 12:36 PM
they usually "debate" this every night on Hannity and Colmes. That show is easily the biggest joke of a partisan politics debate show. I swear, the next time they bring Michael Reagan or Ann Coulter on again I will shoot my TV.

elwoodblues
08-05-2004, 12:38 PM
John McCain came out today to condemn the ad. He said: "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded."

Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day -- Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying on all fronts.

jcx
08-05-2004, 01:05 PM
I was just letting him know about where on TV it will be discussed. I don't really watch Hannity and Colmes.

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 01:07 PM
John McCain might be the last honest politician on the face of the earth.

adios
08-05-2004, 01:09 PM
They always counterbalance the right wingers with left wingers. Colmes is more than a match for Hannity. Both sides of issues are brought out.

GWB
08-05-2004, 01:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
John McCain might be the last honest politician on the face of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

And he endorses me for reelection. Putting all the charges and counter-charges aside, his straightforward endorsement of me as the best choice this year should tell you something. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

jcx
08-05-2004, 01:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
They always counterbalance the right wingers with left wingers. Colmes is more than a match for Hannity. Both sides of issues are brought out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Expanding on that, I believe I read that a couple of the Swift Boat Vets will be debating this w/ a Kerry Campaign official. So both sides will be represented.

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 02:21 PM
watching that crap is like getting your teeth pulled out.

FWIW, I see Holmes asking questions which are reasonable and insightful, Hannity on the other hand usually asks typical right-wing propoganda and seems to like to listen to himself talk than any of the liberal guests they have on.

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 02:24 PM
I would rather vote for him.

adios
08-05-2004, 02:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I see Holmes asking questions which are reasonable and insightful, Hannity on the other hand usually asks typical right-wing propoganda and seems to like to listen to himself talk than any of the liberal guests they have on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, which in my mind validates my statement that Colmes is more than a match of Hannity.

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 02:32 PM
They may be evenly matched, but my whole point is that its an incredibly stupid show. I think Crossfire does a better job because both Carlson and Begala actually seem to be asking honest questions.

andyfox
08-05-2004, 02:41 PM
It tells me he's as Republican.

He'll probably be in the Kerry administration.

imported_Chuck Weinstock
08-05-2004, 02:54 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.

"The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law," McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.

In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's "right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day -- Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.

They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication."

Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 03:19 PM
I wonder why Bush doesn't denouce these ads? I suppose the same can be said for Kerry and the moveon.org ads though. Still, two wrongs never make a right.

Roy Hobbs
08-05-2004, 03:33 PM
Well, the moveon.org ads were generally accurate.

RH

ThaSaltCracka
08-05-2004, 03:48 PM
so what was the problem with them then?

wacki
08-05-2004, 04:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
they usually "debate" this every night on Hannity and Colmes. That show is easily the biggest joke of a partisan politics debate show. I swear, the next time they bring Michael Reagan or Ann Coulter on again I will shoot my TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, atleast about Reagan and Coulter. I don't know why they bother with either one of those two. Neither one of them seems to have a thought that isn't "XYZ is evil!" "I hate XYZ" ......

Such a waste.

Hannity and Colms have their high points tho. They did a good job when Arnold ran for Gov.

BadBoyBenny
08-05-2004, 06:48 PM
I agree. The damage to Kerry is done, Bush can publicly denounce them, which will bring more publicity to the ads, while giving him an arguement next time he is accused of playing dirty. To me it seems like a good move.

Cyrus
08-06-2004, 12:22 AM
David H. Hackworth, a retired U.S. Army Colonel, is a syndicated columnist and author of the recent best seller about Vietnam, Steel My Soldiers' Hearts. He was awarded eight Purple Hearts during 26 years as a soldier.



USA Today : The meaning of a Purple Heart (http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-06-15-hackman_x.htm)

Stu Pidasso
08-06-2004, 01:40 AM
I agree with Col. Hackworth.

Kerry should have never made his purple hearts a politcal issue.

Stu

ps It seems major media is starting to pick up the story. I saw on Fox and CNN websites.

Senor Choppy
08-06-2004, 04:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
John McCain might be the last honest politician on the face of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

And he endorses me for reelection. Putting all the charges and counter-charges aside, his straightforward endorsement of me as the best choice this year should tell you something. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

He also thinks you're a complete ass clown. All it tells people is that he cares about his country and feels that sticking with his party is the right thing to do.

If we elected someone this year with half the integrity of John McCain we'd be a better country for it.

jokerswild
08-06-2004, 05:55 AM
The only reason it's an issue, Stu, is that G.W Bush was a cocaine addicted alcoholic that showed no compunction whatsoever in using his father's influence to avoid combat. He then respected this country so much that he did not show up for over 3 months. Cheney has an even more hypocritical position on his own non service.

Most of the Republican leadership has avoided service.
Ironically, they try and make themselves out to be John Wayne cowboys.

It's a matter of character, and the slanderous lies being paid for by Republican operatives will hurt Bush more than Kerry.

Stu Pidasso
08-06-2004, 07:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It's a matter of character, and the slanderous lies being paid for by Republican operatives will hurt Bush more than Kerry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slanderous lies? Some of these accusations against Sen. Kerry were made as early as 1971. I suppose it is possible that Republican operatives have been plotting against a Kerry presidency for the past 33 years. In the little bubble that you exist in such a conspiracy is highly probable. Mr Jokerswild, its time to come out of fantasy land and just accept the fact that most of Kerry's peers (from his Vietnam days) see him as unfit for command. Judge that for what its worth and Moveon.

Stu

Utah
08-06-2004, 08:33 AM
Speaking of hypocritical cowards...you filling this out anytime soon?

On _________[date] The____________[newpaper] conducted a recount of the Florida election. It states on page ______[page] of the report that Al Gore would have won the election if the supreme court hadnt stopped the recount. Here is the relevant passage:__________[passage]

Knockwurst
08-06-2004, 12:35 PM
Here's a story from today's Boston Globe:

Veteran retracts criticism of Kerry
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | August 6, 2004

WASHINGTON -- A week after Senator John F. Kerry heralded his wartime experience by surrounding himself at the Democratic convention with his Vietnam ''Band of Brothers," a separate group of veterans has launched a television ad campaign and a book that questions the basis for some of Kerry's combat medals.

But yesterday, a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in the book. The affidavit was given to The Boston Globe by the anti-Kerry group to justify assertions in their ad and book.

Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry ''lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

The statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events that formed the basis of his Silver Star. Over time, some Kerry critics have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew. Crew members have said Kerry's actions saved their lives.

Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

''I still don't think he shot the guy in the back," Elliott said. ''It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."

Elliott said he was no under personal or political pressure to sign the statement, but he did feel ''time pressure" from those involved in the book. ''That's no excuse," Elliott said. ''I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake."

The affidavit also contradicted earlier statements by Elliott, who came to Boston during Kerry's 1996 Senate campaign to defend Kerry on similar charges, saying that Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star.

The book, ''Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," is to be published next week. Yesterday it reached number one on the bestseller list on Amazon.com, based on advance orders, in part because of publicity about it on the Drudge Report.

The book seeks to undermine one of the central claims of Kerry's campaign -- that his Vietnam War heroism would make him a good commander in chief.

While the Regnery Publishing yesterday declined to release an advance copy of the book, Drudge's website quotes it as saying, ''Elliott indicates that a Silver Star recommendation would not have been made by him had he been aware of the actual facts."

Meanwhile, a television advertising campaign began yesterday featuring many of the anti-Kerry veterans who are quoted in the book, including Elliott. In the ad, Elliott says, ''John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

Asked to supply evidence to support that statement, the anti-Kerry group provided a copy of Elliott's affidavit. Elliott said the same affidavit had been used in the production of the book.

It is unclear whether the work contains further justification for the assertion, beyond Elliott's statement.

Kerry won the Silver Star for his action on Feb. 28, 1969, in which he shot a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher and running toward a hut. All of Kerry's crewmates who participated and are still living said in interviews last year that the action was necessary and appropriate, and it was Elliott who recommended Kerry for the Silver Star.

In an interview for a seven-part biographical series that appeared in the Globe last year, Kerry said: ''I don't have a second's question" about killing the Viet Cong. ''He was running away with a live B-40, and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it."

Asked whether that meant that he had shot the guerrilla in the back, Kerry said, ''No, absolutely not," adding that the enemy had been running to a hut for cover, where he could have destroyed Kerry's boat and killed the crew.

The forthcoming book is coauthored by Jerome R. Corsi and John O'Neill, a former Vietnam naval officer who in 1971 debated Kerry on the Dick Cavett show, challenging Kerry's assertion that US atrocities had been widespread in Vietnam. O'Neill met with then-President Richard M. Nixon for an hour before debating Kerry, and his efforts were encouraged by Nixon's aides.

O'Neill could not be reached for comment yesterday. President Bush's campaign denied working with O'Neill on the book or with the producers of the television advertisement.

Meanwhile, Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, urged Bush yesterday to disassociate himself from what he called a ''dishonest and dishonorable" attack. In response, the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said, ''We have not and we will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam."

The Associated Press reported yesterday that Houston home-builder Bob J. Perry, a major Republican donor, gave at least $100,000 to the organization sponsoring the ad, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

The Kerry campaign spokesman, Michael Meehan, said none of those in the ad had served on a boat with Kerry. ''Some of these men defended John Kerry's honor on his military record in 1996 and so they were either lying then or lying now," Meehan said. ''Either way, it is gutter politics."

The book also raises questions about the action of March 13, 1969, for which Kerry was awarded a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart, according to an advance chapter of the book.

The anti-Kerry group provided three affidavits from veterans on nearby boats questioning aspects of the award.

On that day, Kerry rescued James Rassmann, who went overboard as a result of an explosion. Rassmann appeared by Kerry's side during the Iowa caucus campaign and at last week's Democratic National Convention, telling the story of how Kerry pulled him out of the water while his boat was under fire.

As in the case of the Silver Star, it was Elliott who recommended Kerry for the Bronze Star. According to the recommendation signed by Elliott, a mine exploded under a boat accompanying Kerry's craft.

''Almost simultaneously, another mine detonated close aboard [Kerry's] PCF-94, knocking First Lieutenant Rassman [sic] into the water and wounding Lt. JG Kerry in the right arm."

Elliott then described how Kerry ''managed to pull Lt. Rassman aboard despite the painful wound in his right arm." Elliott concluded that Kerry had been ''calm, professional, and highly courageous in the face of enemy fire."

Elliott, in the interview yesterday, said that based on the affidavits of the veterans on other boats, he now thinks his assessment about the Bronze Star and third Purple Heart may have been based on poor information.

In one affidavit, for example, Van O'Dell, who said he had been in a boat near Kerry on that day, declared that Kerry had ''lied" about what happened on that day and said that Rassmann was not under enemy fire when Kerry pulled him aboard.

Elliott, asked about the contradiction between his recommendation and his new questioning of Kerry's third Purple Heart, responded, ''It makes me look kind of silly, to be perfectly honest."

But he said: ''I simply have no reason for these guys to be lying, and if they are lying in concert, it is one hell of a conspiracy. So, on the basis of all of the information that has come out, I have chosen to believe the other men. I absolutely do not know first hand."

Naval documents said that Kerry ''received shrapnel wounds in left buttocks and contusions on right forearm when a mine detonated close to PCF 94 while engaged in operations on river. Condition and prognosis excellent. Result of hostile action."

Rassmann, reached by telephone yesterday, said he has never had any question that Kerry deserved the Purple Heart. He said there were two separate events: One was earlier in the day, when he and Kerry blew up a rice cache, and the explosion caused some of the rice to hit Kerry, and perhaps some weapon fragments as well. The second involved a mine explosion as Kerry and Rassmann were on patrol. The explosion, Rassmann said, knocked him overboard and threw Kerry against the pilot house, injuring his arm.

Rassmann said that he has always believed that Kerry got the third Purple Heart solely for the injury to his arm as a result of the explosion in the water.

''If he got fragments in the buttocks due to the mine, that is new information to me," Rassmann said.

''I would say there is confusion. Maybe they did lump it together. It was my understanding he got it for the wound being thrown across the pilot house."

Either way, Rassmann said, Kerry deserved the third Purple Heart because such awards are given for injuries incurred in combat, and Kerry's arm injury qualified. He also stood by his recollection that he was under fire when rescued by Kerry.

Those questioning Kerry's medals, Rassmann said, are ''angry about John speaking out against the [Vietnam] war."

jokerswild
08-06-2004, 02:52 PM
Hi Welcher,
You truly are scum.I've already provided the methodology and the link to the recount. You are a pathetic, below average intellence miserable excuse for a human being. Keep welching! Your reputation will grow and grow as a man that can't be trusted to bet a dime. No casino nor any home game should ever offer you credit.

I've seen degenerates like you before. You will run up debts and then avoid the people you owe. You will go dump at different locations. When you get seriously behind with the wrong people you will then go whine to the authorities that you are being extorted.

What scum. If you knew how to read, then you would already have seen 3 posts on this forum with those links. Two of them by me.

andyfox
08-06-2004, 02:56 PM
C'mon. Let's discuss things civilly.

BTW, I have a bet with Utah and I'm 100% certain that, if I win, he will not welch. I don't agree with some of his politics, but so what? He's a great guy.

jokerswild
08-06-2004, 03:05 PM
No. They were made in 1971 by Vets that opposed his protest of the war. With the retraction by his CO of the affidavit that the book is based on, liable suits would find in favor of Kerry. I expect further retractions.

Please don't tell us Stu that you never saw any combat.
It would truly be sad to discover that you are another Republican that has never seen combat while you pump yourself up as a hawk.

J.R.
08-06-2004, 03:14 PM
With the retraction by his CO of the affidavit that the book is based on, liable (libel) suits would find in favor of Kerry.

Really? Its one thing to question the books credibility, its a whole other matter to suggest its libelous. I'll give you a hint, libel ain't easy to prove, especially when the allegations are primarily opinions and while one sourse has wished he hadn't signed an affadavit, there are others who haven't made usch a retraction, and a true and accurate reckoning of the facts some 30 years after there occurence is implausible.

Utah
08-06-2004, 04:11 PM
sorry....I dont quite understand. Why cant you fill out the simple form again?? Too afraid? Info doesnt exist? You have trouble with forms?

You are certainly looking pretty foolish. I have again given you a simple way to make me look very bad and you refuse to take it.

Utah
08-06-2004, 04:18 PM
Hi Andy,

Of course I will pay you and I would pay the joker if he provided the info. I presented him (or anyone) a simple challenge - I will give you $150 if can show me a recount by a reputable source that said Gore would have won the election if the U.S. Supreme Court hadnt stopped the recount.

He has refused or cant present such info. He provided meaningless links. So, I gave him a simple form to fill out. But he refuses to. We know the reason for that - he cant as the info doesnt exist. So, he resorts to insults.

He also called me a moron and I challenged him to a $500 IQ contest. He refused that as well. I mean, if you think someone is a moron then wouldnt that be an easy $500?

BTW - I now handicap our bet too close to call.

elwoodblues
08-06-2004, 04:18 PM
To be fair, you both are looking pretty foolish.

Utah
08-06-2004, 04:31 PM
LMAO

I let it go for a long time. He wants to keep bringing it up.

adios
08-06-2004, 05:08 PM
Apparently the guy who wrote the article (Mike Kranish) quoted Elliot is writing a forward to book promoting the Kerry-Edwards campaign.

Drudge Report (http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc89.htm)

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRI AUG 06, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

BOSTON GLOBE 'REPORTER' COMMISSIONED TO WRITE CAMPAIGN BOOK FOREWORD -- WHILE COVERING KERRY

BOSTON GLOBE journalist Mike Kranish has been commissioned to write the foreword of the Kerry-Edwards campaign book -- just as he is covering the campaign in an official capacity as a journalist for the BOSTON GLOBE!

Kranish made waves on Friday by reporting in the GLOBE how a key figure in the anti-Kerry vet ad campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, "backed off one of the key contentions."

But Captain George Elliott claims the Kranish article is "extremely inaccurate" and highly misstated his actual views.

Developing...

What Elliott stated about the Kranish article according to Anti Kerry Viet Nam Vets:

Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong (http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_aff.html)

The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is in response to an article appearing in the morning edition of the Boston Globe (“Veteran Retracts Criticism of Kerry”) which implies that one Vietnam Veteran wishes to retract an affidavit he signed regarding John Kerry’s actions during and after Kerry’s time in Vietnam. The signed affidavit can be seen below.
"Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the Boston Globe by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit [see below] in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played.

“Additional documentation will follow. “The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

“Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam.”

Perhaps we'll see Elliot on Hannity & Colmes tonight to explain.

jokerswild
08-06-2004, 05:10 PM
You are so stupid that you probably believe that a dime means 10 cents.

A little cry baby sissy stooge, that's you.
I don't know who taught you play cards either,but I guarantee you that if you can't rank, then you shouldn't play. I would hate to see some wise guy have to hassle with collecting from you.

Don't play.

andyfox
08-06-2004, 06:22 PM
Looks like it's time to let it go again. Since he's resorting to name-calling, what point would be served?

Utah
08-06-2004, 06:36 PM
Agreed. My apologies for making such posts and wasting everyone's time.