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zephyr
08-04-2004, 01:02 PM
I’m still rather new to SNG play, having played around 500 in the past few months. In order to accelerate my learning of the game, I’ve decided to post a number of short “essays” over the next few weeks. My hope is that in writing these posts, I will not only learn some of the material within them, but will also be privilege to a review on my thinking process by the great combined intellect of the form. So here we go, feel free to tear these posts apart, tell me I’m destined to be a life time losing player, tell me that your 10 year old nephew who plays poker for gummy bears would devour me, even tell me that I should consider taking up roulette instead, but please do tell me something, I will appreciate any and all responses.

Just as a note, all of these posts will be directed to low-limit ($5-$30) NLHE SNG’s at party.

Week 1: Weakness in Opponents

“The greatest weakness of all is the great fear of appearing weak” – Jacques Bossuel

Over and over I’ve heard how bad the general level of play at low-limit ($5-$30) SNG’s at party are. Of course I have to agree that for the most part the play is pretty poor in these tournaments, but, simply stating that the play is poor brings a player no closer to being able to defeat these weak players. Ultimately, the goal of any serious player is to be able to profit from these mistakes. However, before one can exploit these mistakes, they must first define them, which brings me to the topic of this post: what are the most common mistakes made by weak players in low limit SNG’s.

I’ll start with bad player’s psychological desire to gamble. Many of the players in these tournaments came to poker because they saw high stakes poker being played on ESPN. They’ve watched the final few hands of the big tournaments, times when the blinds are so high that it becomes necessary for players to become hyper aggressive. They’ve seen millions of dollars hanging in the balance with two players all-in on a coin flip: the excitement, the thrills, the miracle river, all staged under the camera lights at Binion’s. They figure that if this is how the best players in the world play, then it must be correct. Of course what they fail to realize is that these players are only playing hands in this fashion because the structure of the tournament dictates it. Specifically in SNG’s, I’ve seen players pushing pre-flop in the first few rounds with any ace or any pair, sometimes with much worse hands (i.e. low suited connectors). Too often they find themselves dominated, and find that their tournament has ended in round 1. They chalk it up to “bad luck” saying, “what are the chances that someone would have AK when I hold AJs?” By risking all of their chips early, on hands that at best are a coin flip, weak players are making a huge mistake in low limit SNG’s.

Next we have the good starting hand trap. There are some players who play quite opposite to those mentioned above, having extremely stringent starting hand requirements. They often fold the first 30 or 40 hands of an SNG. They’ve actually stumbled onto an extremely important concept in the play of SNG’s, but, having navigated around a large set of rapids, they find themselves heading towards a class 6 waterfall on the river, well on the flop and turn as well. These players wait for 30 hands and finally pick up KK. They become excited, they think: “great, my patience has paid off”. They bring the hand in for a raise, get a couple of callers, and the flop comes up AJJ with two diamonds. There’s a bet, and then a raise before the action gets to them, they call. Turn: 10 of diamonds. A bet, then a raise, and they push all-in, thinking: “my hand deserves to win; all I need is a Q of K on the river”. All of the gains they’ve made by playing disciplined tight pre-flop strategy have been for nothing as they push the other half of their chips in on a six outer, possibly still second best hand. They’ve allowed themselves to become married to a hand, refusing to fold because “it deserves to win”; even though all signs point to the fact that it’s a loser.

Another mistake made by weak players is taking draws too far. Many of the players in SNG’s have come from playing limit ring games. Even though they don’t know much about pot odds and implied odds, they’ve always chased their four flushed and open ended straights, and typically were correct in doing so in limit games, and so they’re damn well gonna chase them in a NL SNG as well. However, they now find themselves in a situation where their pot-odds are drastically worse and where the money is quite shallow. The players are calling pot sized bets, often putting themselves all in, on the turn as 4 to 1 underdog. The times that they do complete their hands they have only a few chips left to bet with on the river. Over a number of tournaments they end up costing themselves heaps of chips by chasing draws when pot-odds and implied odds don’t come close to justifying it.

I’ve often found myself heads up at the end of a low limit SNG with approximately even stacks and blinds at 250/500. I move into hyper aggressive mode and push 4 hands in a row. I can’t believe it when my opponent folds every time, even the time that he min raises from the small blind and then folds 1000 chips to my all in push. I have over 6000 chips and see a message in the chat box: “really imaginative play bonehead, do you even know how to play poker”. I type no response. I get dealt K9 in the small blind and again push, as quickly as my chips go in I’m called and he flips over QQ. I flop a K and the game is over. The chat box goes nuts and all I can do is type gg. In my experience, it seems that the player’s who would benefit most by being all-in on coin flip situations at the end, are the players who seem to avoid them the most. The weaker the player is the more they think that they can outplay, and outlast you. They throw half, sometimes more, of their chips away and then are outraged when they lose a 60/40. Too frequently when they double up, they still have less than half of the chips and are again willing to fold many hands pre-flop. Because of the payout structure of 1st-50%, 2nd-30%, this mistake costs a bad player a lot of money in the long run.

These are only some of the mistakes that I witness on a daily basis by weak opponents in low-limit SNG’s. An area that I didn’t cover is weakness on the bubble, but that is because it could probably use an entire post. Ultimately a players needs to be able to benefit from the mistakes that our opponents make if we want to beat them. This brings me to next weeks post: Exploiting Weakness in Opponents.

Thanks for reading so far. I realize that this post deals with many issues that are rather obvious to many players. I thought that this would be a good first topic for me as it was somewhat of an apparent one.

Flame away!

Zephyr

PrayingMantis
08-04-2004, 02:07 PM
Nice post.

"Wise people are foolish if they cannot adapt to foolish people."

- Michel Eyquem de Montaigne, famous french low-limit SNG player from the 16th century.

NegativeEV
08-04-2004, 03:11 PM
I like.

A suggestion: in future week's installments, please put a link to the previous essays at the bottom of the current post. It would be very helpful if the last post you make has the links to all previous posts in it such that we could reference the materials in a "one stop shopping" fashion. This would also allow me to forward the whole package to a couple of others that I'm introducing to the Party low buying tourney scene.

thanks,
-EV

mackthefork
08-04-2004, 03:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I’ve often found myself heads up at the end of a low limit SNG with approximately even stacks and blinds at 250/500. I move into hyper aggressive mode and push 4 hands in a row. I can’t believe it when my opponent folds every time, even the time that he min raises from the small blind and then folds 1000 chips to my all in push. I have over 6000 chips and see a message in the chat box: “really imaginative play bonehead, do you even know how to play poker”.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post, well timed aggression is good i get moaned at by people all the time for pushing too much late in sngs. Stack size management is in my opinion the most important aspect of playing sngs, paying attention to this and stopping chasing draws are the 2 things which improved my play the most (still a long way to go though).

Regards ML

slogger
08-04-2004, 04:58 PM
Nice post, Zeph. Very well thought out.

You're correct that many good players already realize that these weaknesses exist in their weak opponents, but being able to review them and analyze how best to exploit them is worth even the best player's time. We all know how easy it can be to become robotic in our play after a few hundred of these, so I think taking a step back to remember why good play is good and why weak play is weak.

Looking forward to future intallments!

UncleDuke
08-04-2004, 10:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
tell me that your 10 year old nephew who plays poker for gummy bears would devour me

[/ QUOTE ]

Was he that young guy who won the 3k gummy bear pot limit hold em event at the WSOP?

anatta
08-05-2004, 01:43 AM
Good post. Hey, what about the guys who bet like its limit? You know 15 on the flop and 30 on the turn. Thats always good for a laugh. Pot is like 400. Bet 30!

Hood
08-05-2004, 05:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Good post. Hey, what about the guys who bet like its limit? You know 15 on the flop and 30 on the turn. Thats always good for a laugh. Pot is like 400. Bet 30!

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you exploit that weakness?

VarlosZ
08-05-2004, 08:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Good post. Hey, what about the guys who bet like its limit? You know 15 on the flop and 30 on the turn. Thats always good for a laugh. Pot is like 400. Bet 30!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you exploit that weakness?

[/ QUOTE ]
For the most part, I just treat it like an expensive check. If I have a draw (even just overcards), I'll gladly call his "bet." If I have a good hand, I'll bet it for real.

Some players use the ridiculous mini-bet w/ good hands (top pair or better), hoping to induce a bluff from all the Doyle Brunson faithful (remember, gotta come over the top of those post-oak bluffs). Other players religiously mini-bet their draws, not realizing what a huge tell this is. These players should be raised so much that it becomes wrong to chase (though they usually will anyway, in my experience).

And then there are the players who do both of these things. They're actually somewhat dangerous, for obvious reasons.

That's why it's important to pay attention to how players use their mini-bets (and, preflop, mini-raises). Most of the notes I take on players have to do with this. (At least, most of my notes on PartyPoker players are; at Pokerstars, the mini-bet/mini-raise is a rare bird.)


Regards,
Jer

kyro
08-05-2004, 09:37 AM
Low-limit SNG's in a nutshell. Very nice.

Now let's hope the fish don't read it /images/graemlins/cool.gif

TheCat
08-05-2004, 10:33 AM
Great stuff. Looking forward to the next installment.
Another big area of weakness is many players will allow you to draw out on them when they have a made hand. They bet small when they should be betting near the size of the pot. This is easy to expolit if you on a draw. You simply call.
Lot of people seem to slowplay far too much. You even see folk slowplaying top pair when flush and str8 draw in on the board.

anatta
08-05-2004, 08:10 PM
You exploit this by calling when you have a draw, even a weak draw like a gutter or bottom pair. Conversely, by betting 1/2 pot size or more, you don't give your opponents the correct odds to draw to even legit draws like flushes...yet they still call often very very slim.

I havent played much no limit but I guess this is why many think limit is harder and why no limit seems to me to be more profitable. If you add in the skill of chip management, you got even more going for you over the clueless kids.

zephyr
08-06-2004, 06:09 PM
Thanks for all of the positive feedback. I think there are some important and vital additions that have been made.

In summary here are some of the added weakness’ people noticed:

Giving other players the correct odds to draw out. I frequently see this when a player limps or min raises preflop with aces checks the flop, bets 1/5th the pot on the turn and then can't believe it when they're reraised all-in on the river by someone who just made their straight.

Slowplaying too frequently and for too long. I remember a hand recently where the flop was A66. There were about 5 players in the hand with a pot of about 300 after the flop. In the end, one player shows AA and to his amazement is shown 66 by the other. What amazed me was that neither of these two players managed to get all in. Of course they both had legitimate slowplaying hands, but at some point you've gotta test out if your opponents believed your slowplay move and thinks that you're weak. More common though is when players slowplay hands that don't warrant being slowplayed at all: vulnerable hands with scary boards and lots of opponents.

Poor chip management. Perhaps this is most prevalent on the bubble and when into the money. But one area of poor chip management that I often see early is when a weak player doubles up. Instead of using their big stack to put pressure on the other players, they often squander their chips chasing unlikely draws with bad pot odds and terrible implied odds. What they don't understand is that it is the times when you are fortunate enough to double up really early, that you have the greatest opportunity, and advantage.

Of course there exist many other weak plays made by opponents. Although I often speak of other players that I've seen make these mistakes, it should be noted that every one of them has been made by myself countless times. The first step to correcting them though is noticing them in others, and then noticing them in ourselves.

Any final comments? Any advice on how I should post my next topic? Should I continue this thread? Should I start a new one with a link to this one?

Best Regards,

Zephyr

cferejohn
08-06-2004, 07:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Slowplaying too frequently and for too long. I remember a hand recently where the flop was A66. There were about 5 players in the hand with a pot of about 300 after the flop. In the end, one player shows AA and to his amazement is shown 66 by the other. What amazed me was that neither of these two players managed to get all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

For pete's sake, who put in the last raise on the river? I mean, I can see slowplaying these hands, but with either hand, I'm *never* going to just call on the river; frankly I don't understand how it could happen unless AA made the greatest read in the history of mankind...

zephyr
08-06-2004, 07:32 PM
Like I said, I was totally amazed! Another player had been making small bets all along, AA bet, 66 called (obviously hoping that the third player would raise ???), and the third player called. Still amazing though.

cferejohn
08-06-2004, 08:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, I was totally amazed! Another player had been making small bets all along, AA bet, 66 called (obviously hoping that the third player would raise ???), and the third player called. Still amazing though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, with a third player who had position in, it makes some sense. Still pretty amazing...