Question about Flutie and the Hall of Fame

[BeerMoney]

Will his years in the CFL give him a shot at the football HOF? From what I understand, its Professional Football HOF, not an NFL HOF, so his stellar CFL years could give him a shot, right? I think the fact that he has played successfully in the NFL at the end of his career shows that his time in the CFL isn't meaningless cause its a B league.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

I wouldn't vote for him. His time in the CFL is meaningless because it is a 'B' league. The HoF is for people who show extraordinary excellence at the highest level. Racking up stats in a pass-happy junior league doesn't count for much more than a shot at a job in the real league. What did he do in the NFL? Was he ever even a top-5 QB? Yeah, he was good, he had a knack for winning a few games that he probably shouldn't have, but he's no hall-of-famer.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I say why not, the only HoF that really means anything is the Baseball one anyways.

[kerssens]

No way...I've never seen anything more than an average NFL quarterback

[BeerMoney]

Actually, I vehemently disagree. Case in point, Paul Molitor. I loved molitor, he was a great player.. Ted williams thought the guy was a great hitter. But, how many casual fans do you think would know Molitor? If he had never had his 42 game hit streak, only people that follow the game pretty closely would know what a good player he was. My point: Like everything else, the Baseball HOF has been watered down. The HOF should be for players that you wouldn't doubt as HOF'ers. Guys like Clemens, Ozzie, Shmidt, Bench, etc.. Real superstars of the game. Not B superstars. I guess that would defeat my argument for flutie, but I gave more of a question, if his years in CFL would count/help.

[WEASEL45]

6 mvp's isnt racking up yards in a b league

[ThaSaltCracka]

How the [censored] is the baseball HoF being watered down when they let 2 people in on average a year, while football and basketball are closer to 6 to 8?
Molitor, doesn't deserve to be in there???? Its people like you that make me happy that the sportswriters and fellow hall members get to decide who goes in. Molitor had an awesome career. 3300 hits, a career .306 hitter Look at his numbers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/molitpa01.shtml) before you state your "educated" opinion.

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The HOF should be for players that you wouldn't doubt as HOF'ers

[/ QUOTE ] Most people that are fans of baseball would probably say Molitor is a first ballot HoF. The fact that you don't means you haven't looked at his numbers, or you cannot infer from his numbers that he is a HoF'er

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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6 mvp's isnt racking up yards in a b league

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That's all nice and I'm sure his mother is very proud of him, but the fact remains that he did it in a B LEAGUE. What'd he do in the real league? He was above average for a few years. I certainly wouldn't object to his entry into a CFL HoF or a Football Hall of Above Average. I suppose you could put them in the same building.

[ThaSaltCracka]

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I certainly wouldn't object to his entry into a CFL HoF or a Football Hall of Above Average. I suppose you could put them in the same building.

[/ QUOTE ] I am dying man /images/graemlins/laugh.gif LOL /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BeerMoney]

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The HOF should be for players that you wouldn't doubt as HOF'ers

[/ QUOTE ] Most people that are fans of baseball would probably say Molitor is a first ballot HoF. The fact that you don't means you haven't looked at his numbers, or you cannot infer from his numbers that he is a HoF'er

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Again I really liked Paul Molitor. His baseball card is the only one of value that I own. He was a fantastic player. But to the best of my knowledge, to be a first ballot HOF'er you used to have to be a superspuperstar. (I believe the Babe was denied on his first attempt.)

Here's the thing.. People argue about Jim Rice all of the time. I say, if its even a question, don't vote him in. It should be for the real legends of the game... Koufax, Musual, Foxx, Dimaggio. I will throw up on the day that douchebag Wade Boggs gets inducted. He got 3000 meaningless hits, that's gotta be some sort of record. I'm not saying Molitor shouldn't be in the HOF. I just think the standards should be really high.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

the only HoF that really means anything is the Baseball one anyways.

Why? I guess i don't know much about the others, and other than baseball, the only one I've actually visited is the Hockey HOF.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

No way Doug should be in Canton. Great CFL career no doubt, but his Heismann was in part based on one play (and a blown coverage at that) and IIRC there were 2 QBs that came out of college that year with better stats.

Besides, his classless act after the Bills lost to the Titans should disqualify him.

[BeerMoney]

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No way Doug should be in Canton. Great CFL career no doubt, but his Heismann was in part based on one play (and a blown coverage at that) and IIRC there were 2 QBs that came out of college that year with better stats.

Besides, his classless act after the Bills lost to the Titans should disqualify him.

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Stats aren't everything, especially in college. (David Klingler, Andre Ware.) Please refresh my memory on the classless act.

[ThaSaltCracka]

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But to the best of my knowledge, to be a first ballot HOF'er you used to have to be a superspuperstar

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Oh, my mistake, I did not realize this was a rule.

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People argue about Jim Rice all of the time.

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Jim Rice is not Paul Molitor or Wade Boggs. His career is borderline HoF, IMO, he can go either way, but if you look at his numbers, his most meaningful numbers (HR and RBI's) he is only 45 and 46 on the career list. Molitors most meaningful stats (Hits and Runs) he is 9th and 17th. Not to mention 10th in Doubles.
Boggs most meaningful stats (Hits, BA, and OBP) he is 23rd, 34th, and 27th. Being 34th all time in BA is far more impressive than 45 all time in HR's, especially when you consider the absurd BA numbers players put up early on in the game. Also consider the absurd power numbers we have seen in the past 15 years.

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I'm not saying Molitor shouldn't be in the HOF. I just think the standards should be really high.

[/ QUOTE ] How high? Career leaders only? C'Mon, you are suppose to judge players by the era they played in, as well as where they rank historically in regards to the game. A guy like McGwire(who I don't think should be a shoo-in, but will be) put up impressive power numbers, but then again, he played in a power era, but his numbers are so high in that regard, that I suppose he should be in. The same thing for Molitor and Boggs. They were arguebaly two of the best hitters for their era.

[ThaSaltCracka]

IMO, baseballs is really the only one that means anything partly based upon the history of the game, and who is in there. I supppose footballs could grow to mean something, but theres no way it would ever be meaningful if a guy like Flutie is in there.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Fair enough, but I think Hockey should rank right up there with baseball, being a sport that also can be called "the national passtime." Plus their HOF is really cool.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

In a post-game interview he stated "If I had started, we would've won." That's wrong on two levels.

1) It's just wrong to slap your teammate in the face after a tough loss (but Flutie was never a locker-room favorite anywhere he played).

2) I don't know how his statement could've been true unless he asked to play on the kickoff team. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

I don't know anything about the history of Hockey or the NHL except that it is pretty old. I suppose Hockey means something, but in the U.S. the only HoF of any meaning is baseballs.
BTW, where is it?

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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I don't know anything about the history of Hockey or the NHL except that it is pretty old. I suppose Hockey means something, but in the U.S. the only HoF of any meaning is baseballs.
BTW, where is it?

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Part of the Hockey HoF's problem is it's in Eveleth, MN. There's not much traffic up there. It is/was cool, though (this coming from a hockey player who grew up playing in Northern MN and WI).

[ThaSaltCracka]

it should be in Canada

[Ulysses]

So does this mean Warren Moon is an easy pick for the HOF?

[BeerMoney]

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So does this mean Warren Moon is an easy pick for the HOF?

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I don't know, that's my question though..

[RcrdBoy]

Moon's a lock for the HoF and that's without using his CFL numbers.

The guy is #3 all time in passing YDS and #5 in TDs.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The Hockey HOF is in Toronto, and there are a lot of us here in the US who grew up as hockey fans. IMO, the NFL is close to being on par with MLB now, and if baseball doesn't cure its ills soon, it will be a secondary sport within a generation.

[RcrdBoy]

How about Arena League stats? It's a pro league, right?

No, you can't use CFL#s.

First, it's a different game. Only 3 downs to get a first down. Also the scoring is slightly different and the field is a different dimension.

I don't think they use USFL stats for guys like Steve Young and Jim Kelly either.

[WEASEL45]

yes

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Part of the Hockey HoF's problem is it's in Eveleth, MN.

Huh? I've been to the Hockey hall of fame and I can say with 100% certainty that it's in Toronto.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The real one is.

[Ulysses]

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Moon's a lock for the HoF and that's without using his CFL numbers.

The guy is #3 all time in passing YDS and #5 in TDs.

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Yeah, it's just that outside of Houston, a lot of people never really gave Moon any respect as being a top QB. You're right, though, his NFL stats alone are probably more than enough to overcome that. Give his CFL stats any consideration and it seems a no-brainer.

Here's an article (http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text1-27-2001-2200.asp) I found.

[B-Man]

No way Flutie should be in the Hall of Fame.

If there were (maybe there are, I don't know) a College Football Hall of Fame and/or Canadian Football Hall of Fame, then he would be a legitimate candidate for both.

[Dynasty]

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But to the best of my knowledge, to be a first ballot HOF'er you used to have to be a superspuperstar....It should be for the real legends of the game... Koufax, Musual, Foxx, Dimaggio.

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I've got no problem putting Molitor in the same class as Dimaggio. Molitor is among the all-time leaders in hits (9th), runs (17th), and doubles (10th) despite losing about a combined two seasons due to various injuries during his prime years. His #s should have been better.

Despite that, there are only two playes who had more career at-bats than Molitor and managed to hit for a better average- Cobb and Musial.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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Part of the Hockey HoF's problem is it's in Eveleth, MN.

Huh? I've been to the Hockey hall of fame and I can say with 100% certainty that it's in Toronto.

[/ QUOTE ]
Meh. http://www.ushockeyhall.com/map.htm

It's the US Hockey HoF. Bah.

[SossMan]

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But to the best of my knowledge, to be a first ballot HOF'er you used to have to be a superspuperstar....It should be for the real legends of the game... Koufax, Musual, Foxx, Dimaggio.

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I've got no problem putting Molitor in the same class as Dimaggio. Molitor is among the all-time leaders in hits (9th), runs (17th), and doubles (10th) despite losing about a combined two seasons due to various injuries during his prime years. His #s should have been better.

Despite that, there are only two playes who had more career at-bats than Molitor and managed to hit for a better average- Cobb and Musial.

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but what do you know about baseball stats? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[RcrdBoy]

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Yeah, it's just that outside of Houston, a lot of people never really gave Moon any respect as being a top QB.

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Up here he will always be remembered for leading UW football to a huge Rose Bowl win in 78' over a heavily favored Michigan team. Well, that and being a Seahawks QB for about 2 seasons.

[Usul]

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It's the US Hockey HoF. Bah.

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It's also known as the Hockey Hall of Above Average.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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It's the US Hockey HoF. Bah.

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It's also known as the Hockey Hall of Above Average.

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Nice.

You could, however, make an argument for it being even more selective, as you not only have to be awesome to get in, but you have to be an (United States of) American too. Many would argue that there are few who meet both of these criteria.