Big slick, big pot, not so big flop.

[chief444]

Hand from Monday...looking for comments on flop play mainly. Wasn't crazy about it with the fairly coordinated board and multiway pot but I was a little unsure at the time.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (9 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

River: (12 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>..........

[StuR]

I would have lead out on the flop and called a raise. I nearly always bet if I was the preflop raiser and flop big overcards.

I then check on the turn and call ONE bet if unimproved.

As it happens you hit one of your outs, I would then bet out on the turn like you did and plan to call and check-call the river if raised. If it was just called I would bet on the river again even tho the eight came off and call if raised because it would be a huge pot by then.

So all in all, I would have played it the same way except for the flop check raise - but I rarely check-raise, this is a part of my game I'm trying to improve.

Feel free to ignore my advice - I am relatively new to the game.

Stu

[easypete]

I think the c/r on flop is only good if you know the button is going to bet out, otherwise, lead the betting on the flop.

And I definately bet the river on this, but I'm guessing button has an 8. (hence "Hero bets....")

[Rico Suave]

Stur:

[ QUOTE ]
I would have lead out on the flop and called a raise. I nearly always bet if I was the preflop raiser and flop big overcards.


[/ QUOTE ]

Considering hero's position, the flop, and the # of opponents, I think checking this flop is better than leading.

--Rico

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
Stur:

[ QUOTE ]
I would have lead out on the flop and called a raise. I nearly always bet if I was the preflop raiser and flop big overcards.


[/ QUOTE ]

Considering hero's position, the flop, and the # of opponents, I think checking this flop is better than leading.

--Rico

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if you are going to give up the aggression, then this is correct. I would only check here if I were going to check/call. So if you are going to check/call, why not lead out?

I would only check here (since you have the lead pf), if you intend on folding.

[Rico Suave]

Chief:

I do not think there is anything wrong with your play. I agree that the coordination of the flop makes me a less enthusiastic about throwing more $ in the pot, but considering the opportunity the button provided and the size of the pot, raising is the best play if you decide to continue. Of course, getting cold called in 2 spots would make me want to take the raise back. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif The turn and river are fine.

--Rico

[Rico Suave]

Easypete:

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you are going to give up the aggression, then this is correct. I would only check here if I were going to check/call. So if you are going to check/call, why not lead out?


[/ QUOTE ]

Let me start by saying that this flop pretty much stinks. It is highly coordinated and there is a good size field. Chief has next to zero chance of taking this down with a bet, and there is a good chance that this flop is raised behind him (flush draw, any 9, any piece of the flop thinking it missed chief's AK).

Now checking may seem weak, but I think if offers options. Hero can now survey the action before making his desicion on how or whether to continue. If there is a bet and a raise, hero may decide to fold. If there is a bet from late position, then hero can choose to raise. If the bet comes from his left, then hero can choose to call one closing the action.

I just think that betting in this spot is not as advantageous as checking.

--Rico

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Chief:

I do not think there is anything wrong with your play. I agree that the coordination of the flop makes me a less enthusiastic about throwing more $ in the pot, but considering the opportunity the button provided and the size of the pot, raising is the best play if you decide to continue. Of course, getting cold called in 2 spots would make me want to take the raise back. The turn and river are fine.

--Rico


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Rico. I didn't see any point in betting out here with just overcards, a fairly coordinated board and so many opponents. It seemed checking was clearly the best option. Once the button bet, I was debating folding or raising. If not for the coordinated board I would not have thought twice considering the pot size. I think check/calling is the worst option with the bet coming from the button. If the bet came from EP then it would have been a check/call situation.

[easypete]

Makes sense.

Maybe I'm over agro w/ these hands...

[Haupt_234]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you are going to give up the aggression, then this is correct. I would only check here if I were going to check/call. So if you are going to check/call, why not lead out?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because hero does not want it to be raised behind him. With this large of the field on a textured flop like this, I think betting out is silly. It doesn't accomplish anything here. I check/call.

Haupt_234

[StuR]

Ah well, at least I've learnt something today!

StuR