$30-$60 Hand w/Mason

I have been running over the game and showing down good hands so my image is strong. I am two off the button and open with a raise having the Jc-8c. The cutoff and button both fold. Mason Malmuth, sitting in the small blind, 3-bets. The big blind folds and I call.


The flop is: Ac-Ts-9s, giving me a straight draw plus a backdoor flush draw. Mason bets and I call. The turn is the Js, now giving me a pair plus my straight draw. Mason bets and I call. The river is the 7s, giving me a straight but putting four spades on the table. Mason checks. What should I do?


Results later.

I like the flop call. See if he can fire out again on the turn.


On the turn, what was your reasoning for not raising. This is the perfect scare card, since it improves you, but not in an obvious manner. You may have the best hand, you certainly have live outs, and you may get him to muck a hand like QQ or Axs. I suspect that Mason's 3-betting standards from the SB are quite a bit looser against "Bob Morgan in LP" than against many other players.


Great time for the raise-the-turn-take-the-free showdown play. He might muck, you might improve, you might have the best hand.

check. In reality, there isn't a lot you will beat if called. Unless he has a spade, Mason

(just speculating, as I've never seen him play)

will likely fold one pair.

I'd bet the river, largely for psych reasons. Even if he (meaning anyone)will fold a worse hand most of the time, I want him to have to physically do it, and not get a peek at my (presumed) suckout for free. For your style, especially, I would think that betting just about every headup rivered four-flush would be in keeping.


Tommy

i cant imagine not putting in a raise on either the flop or, especially, the turn. why let the sb possibly get there with a spade with a hand he mightve folded to a raise?


btw that mason 3 bet preflop helps eliminate AA or KK as possible hands as he seems to have a tendency to smooth call with hands like that in that position to a steal raise preflop. he let's the bb in.

"and you may get him to muck a hand like QQ or Axs"


i think mason would call down with these two hands. with QQ he'd be open ended on the turn and against a player as skilled as bob he'd probably want to call down with top pair.


i think there's also some chance mason wouldnt bet the flop with a pair of aces here.

bet the river because mason's not big on folding the river for one more bet as many of the posters here are. there are many many worse hands he'll call with on the river, a checkraise seems very unlikely because he wouldnt want to miss a bet you would call if he has a big flush card. it's worth the risk that he's checking a small flush, but i put mason on a set, two pair, or a pair (all hands unlikely or impossible to have a flush card with them) that has some showdown value--a showdown he wishes to get to for one or zero bets. this is an easy value bet.

Against Mason, maybe, you'd bet for value.


Against lesser players, betting for value might be dangerous. Too much chance of running into

a spade. One pair will fold a lot (I would be such a folder).


BTW, I agree that there should be a raise on the turn.

Bob,


I think you have a very tricky situation here. If Mason put you on a steal raise he may be trying to isolate you with a weaker hand, since he did force the big blind to fold.


His play is consistant with his book. Since, the S&M team recommend to check when they flop an ace, you could probably rule out the suited ace hand. On the turn, he bets out again. So, far this is consistant with having a pocket pair. But, the problem comes on the river. It is possible for him to have a flush by accident. So, just check the river. If you bet, and he does have a flush you will get raised. Futhermore, you will probably have to call that raise because Mason is capable of a check raise bluff.


Good Luck


Mark

The possibility of a check-raise tilts me to a check on the end. Well-reasoned.

"Mason is capable of a check raise bluff"


yes he is but this is a highly unlikely board to attempt that sort of a play. highly coordinated boards tend to keep players honest, yet another reason bob should value bet the river.


i completely agree about it looking like mason has a pocket pair, perhaps one like 99 or TT that flopped a set btw.


this hand also demonstrates in many ways the importance of position. bob has many reasonable options as to how to play the hand, mason in the sb, even if he has a strong hand, seems to have very few.

A raise on the turn would be a reasonable play - helping to define where the Sb was at and you may have the best hand, along with your outs.


Bet the River. You may have a spade just as well as your opponent - right.


-Zeno

I bet. Mason called. I showed my straight and won. I figured if Mason had a spade it would be a big one since he 3-bet out of his blind. With a big spade he would have probably bet the river so his check denies a spade flush. This means my straight is good. I know Mason will call me down with anything in this spot since he knows I like to bluff a lot.

Bob,


I won’t peek until after this is posted. I believe Mason would tend to check the river with both his high spade (the only spade he could have) and strong non-spade hands (such as a set) hoping you try to bluff him out (he will call of course). He might keep betting his weaker hands (e.g., QQ without a spade) hoping you might release a non-spade ace. He also may have a tendency to check his good spade hands on the turn based on his advice in HPFAP. Given this and the fact you shouldn’t fear a checkraise bet the river for value.


Regards,


Rick

Bob,


Since you say he knows you like to bluff wouldn't Mason be inclined to check-call a hand such as Ax-Ks or Ax-Qs?


~ Rick

mike,


I do think Mason would tend to check-call with both the king or queen of spades hoping Bob bluffs or bets off worse hands. But I sgree with the value bet for the reasons you mention.


It is tough to say whether or not Mason checks or bets the turn with a decent spade (e.g., Qs-Qx, Ax-Qs) since some of his strategy and other ideas tend to put this decision in a gray area.


Regards,


Rick

your problem was raising with J8 of clubs, even though you have been running good it doesn't matter, why would you play j 8 of clubs??


I'm sorry but all the posts I read, are marginal hands that may be up against stronger hands...., if you never played j 8 of clubs, you would have never had the problem....

Helps to know your opponent. I called for a wimpy check in my earlier posts, but that's I have never played against Mason.


Good bet.

Your hand is gold, bet and watch him pay it off.

"your problem was raising with J8 of clubs, even though you have been

running good it doesn't matter, why would you play j 8 of clubs??


NO - it wasn't my problem, as you can see THIS TIME it was Mason's problem!


Why would I play J8c? Because I was 2 off the button and no one has a clue what I have when I open-raise.


" I'm sorry but all the posts I read, are marginal hands that may be up against

stronger hands...., if you never played j 8 of clubs, you would have never

had the problem....


You would never have given yourself a chance to win the pot either!


NOTE: I'm NOT recommending my style of play to beginners but it works for me!

BTW, I raised 3 off the button with 97o and Jim Brier had pocket kings and the flop was 993, and I won a big pot...now I ask you are you going to put me on that hand....... I don't think so!

I know what the books say but I don't play by the book.

Hope this answers your questions.

mike l.,


Let's try this example.


Bob's been playing pretty solid showing down good winning hands /images/smile.gif . Mason has a good hand, but not good enough to let the big blind in, so he makes it three bets.


Let's assume for this example that Mason had a pair of queens, although he could have a suited ace hand like As5s. But, let's stick with the queens for now (we can use other possibilities and figure those out later).


Mason bets out on the flop, and Bob calls. On the turn, the flush is completed for an ace suited hand, but his play is consistent with having either As5s, or a pair of queens. When Mason bets out on the turn, Bob does not know if Mason is betting a pocket pair, or a flush. Bob, being the smart guy he is, only calls the bet. By only calling Bob adds deception to his hand. If Bob raised on the turn, Mason would probably fold a pair. I'll assume that this is consistent with Bob representing the nut flush draw too. As far as Mason is concerned, Bob either has a flush or straight draw, or a pair. What really ruins Bob's play on the turn is the 4th spade. Now, if Mason bets out he will only get called if he has the nut flush. If he has a small flush, he will get possibly raised. So, Mason checks. Now, the problem with Bob betting the river occurs when Mason does have a flush. Now, we know that there are 6 combinations of queens and 3 of them have a spade, so if Mason does have a pair of queens, it's a 50% chance he has a flush (the same goes for anyother pocket pair, unless he flopped a set).


Any comments?


Good Luck


Mark

(n/t)

opponents,one must occasionally play "incorrectly" NOT to be an "open book".

Therefore,against experienced opposition,if you play almost 100% according to the book,you will be a long term loser according to "The Fundamental Theorem of Poker" . You would be too readable.

Hence,U would be "dead meat". You need to throw a "curve ball" once in a while.

Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

Ps Expert recommendations are "guidelines"--NOT engrained in stone.