singing the KQ blues

Online 10-20. I pickup KQ off in a late position,

and open-raise with it. Button and big blind both call.


Flop comes A-7-4, rainbow. Checked to me. Should I bet?


Results to follow.

Yep, this is your only crack at winning the pot, which is 6 1/2 small bets, well worth the risk of betting 1 sb. If raised, of course, fold.


Continue the betting on the turn if you catch a King or Queen (a case could be made for continuing betting, particularly vs BB, anyway - if he's the kind of player who would often take one card off with a pair or perhaps a straight draw on the flop, but fold the turn).


lars

There are six small bets in the pot on the flop. You don't have to take it down very often with a flop bet to make the bet correct. This depends on your opponents, of course. In particular, I think you need to wonder about what hands the button would have called preflop with. Would he always reraise rather than calling if he held an ace? Would he call with a pocket pair, and if so would he fold it here on the flop?


In general, I would bet here since people know that a late position player open-raising will often hold an ace, which makes it hard for them to call on this flop. This board offers very few draws, which increases your chance of taking the pot down greatly. I think betting the flop looks good.

I'd say it's a fairly good probability you'll pick up the pot more than one in 6 times, don't you?

Well, I did bet. Button folded. Big blind called.

Turn was a 10. Checked to me, I bet and BB called.


River was an eight. Check, check (no point in betting, since a pair will nearly always call).


BB had 8-5 offsuit. He stayed with his gutshot and spiked a pair. Oh well.

Given the cold call by the button, I would check. You are unlikely to have the best hand if you bet, but you are very likely to get raised if you get any action at all. If you get called, you are also pretty much beaten like a dead horse. Each of these two scenarios don't fare well for your already trashed hand.


The button will probably raise you if he plays, but will fold if he missed, therefore you don't gain much by betting into him.


The BB might fold, but might check-call with a pair smaller than aces. This leaves you in a situation where you don't know where you are at, but are quite sure you are beaten, and you have spent a bet to get there. Your position over the BB gives you somewhat of an advantage, but this is somewhat nullified by your having raised pre-flop. The BB is probably expecting you to put in an "obligatory flop bet by the pre-flop raiser" and thus can easily check-raise you if he hit the flop with as little as bottom pair.


Some might argue that you could pick up the pot right there, so you should bet. I feel that often times this is the correct play. However, this particular time you have a hand which has badly missed the flop, and is not in a good position in relation to your opponents and their likely range of holdings. Also, the raggedy rainbow nature of the board pretty much insures that any action you get will be by a better hand.


You missed the flop, plain and simple. It would be different if you had AK and the flop was jack high, but with KQ and an ace high flop, you don't really have any scare cards that could do you any good, and you don't have a hand to draw at either. You don't even have any opportunities to pick up a good draw. Check. If bet into, fold and be done with it. Wait for a better opportunity.


If the button checks the flop, bet anything on the turn if the BB checks again. Now it looks like you have a big pocket pair and were scared of the ace, and it's relatively certain that neither of your opponents has an ace in his hand. Therefore the only real threat is if the BB or button somehow picked up trips, a set, or two pair on the turn, but you could easily fold to any turn raise.


Interested to see if anyone agrees with me on this one.


Dave in Cali

seems everyone thought the pot odds justified the chance of picking up the pot on the flop except for me. They may have been right.


Most of the time, I would advocate betting the flop with anything in a three way pot after you raised pre-flop and one person checked to you. However, you can't play this way 100% of the time, as you can't play any given situation exactly the same every time. Therefore, if you were going to check after having raised pre-flop, this would be the flop to do it, since you missed so badly.


Many times you have to make a poker decision quickly without having all the info needed to do so. When this happens, I go with my first impression, which is what i did here. It appears as if I may have had the wrong instinct on this one. Live and learn.


Dave in Cali

It was a close decision. I tend to resolve this

(nowadays) by taking the more aggressive action.

Plus I was under the weather this weekend.

i drive much further. about 90 miles each way.


do you beat paradise 10-20? how the hell do you do it?


were you in vegas for the Q+A? i think i might know who you are then...


hey i responded to your post about 30-60 comm vs the 40-80 way below. hope you look at it and respond.

I missed the Q & A--remember, I have a full-time job. Actually on the night of the 26th, I was on

my way to Tijuana to collect a winning baseball

ticket at Caliente.


I'll see your post below. Thanks! /images/smile.gif

Also note that a bet might get some small pairs in the blind to fold as well as force the button into a tough decision if he doesn't have an ace. If you are behind a pair other than aces and get called all is not lost as you have six outs. I hate checking here.


~ Rick

mike,


Sing a happy tune and maybe he will stay so you can get this guys money after a while. Nicely played despite the result.


~ Rick

That's why a piece of my bankroll is online.

I only play about 5-6 hours per week, mostly on weeknights.


My real action is on weekends.