Yet another hand from the Plaza tourney

[Nottom]

This one is from last weeks episode. Actually a pretty mundane little hand, but I thought it was very interesting.

Blinds are 600/1200
Daniel open raises with 56 /images/graemlins/spade.gif to 6K. Ted Forrest calls from the BB with AKo.

Flop is J /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Check, check
Turn is the 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Ted bets 10K, Daniel thinks for a bit and calls.
River is the 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Ted thinks for a sec and checks, Daniel almost immediately bets 30K.

[Entity]

IIRC, Ted thought about it a long time, then called the 30k. Mumbled something beforehand about the only hand he was scared of was 56 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Rob

[Toro]

Negreanu, in some ways particularly pre-flop, plays similar to Gus Hansen. Raising with suited connectors such as the hand you cited is a prime example.

I think when you play against someone like that, it is imperative that you come over the top of them with a raise particularly with a premium hand like AK. Forrest never took control of the hand and got what he deserved, bleeding off chips on a hand he should be winning.

The only one I've seen on TV(that's all I got to go on) to use this very basic(imo) strategy is Paul Phillips against Gus Hansen.

Can't let tricky players like Negreanu and Hansen drive the hand.

[MLG]

I disagree, while its true Phillips did come blasting over Gus on an A-Q hand the knocked Gus and his 1010 out, before that Phillips showed a desire to mix it up with Gus. There was one hand where he bet got check-raised, and then rererasied with top pair (Jacks I think) and absolutely no kicker. I seem to recall feeling like Phillips was more willing to mix it up with Gus than most players.





not that I'm hijacking this thread or anything.

[Toro]

You're making my point!

[MLG]

Hmmm, I thought you were saying that you need to blow players like that out of the water before the flop. I guess your just saying mix it up aggresively with smaller bets, raises and reraises post flop for value. Cool, I like agreeing with people.

[Toro]

No, I was talking about taking control of the hand pre-flop. I think this is most important, particularly in no limit. But no also to "blowing them out of the water". I'm just saying I don't think you can be a caller against these tricky players or they will have too much control and eventully outplay you sometime during the hand.

Do you remember that young kid Danny(can't remember his last name) in one of the WPT events last year. He had Gus right up to the River on this particular hand(he had AQ and Hansen A3 and an ace flopped) but never took control of the hand playing very passively. Did not get a lot of chips into the pot until he was behind in the hand. I don't think you can or should play that way. Hansen ended up gutting him on that hand and won the tourney because of that one hand.

So yes, we are in agreement on that aspect, post flop play. But I think it's just as important to show aggression pre-flop.

[MLG]

I hear what your saying. I seem to recall, somebody (Andy Bloch in season 1 maybe) saying that the problem with that strategy is that Gus (and Daniel) are capable of rereraising with so many hands that you end up playing pots for a lot of chips with marginal cards then. Still, I think you (and me if I'm agreeing with you) are right in that if you try to bluff catch you will take small pots and leave them open to making hidden monsters that will bust you.

[Nottom]

Its important to rememeber that the stacks in this tourney were VERY deep. The stacks in this hand were like 160K and 200K, with the blinds at only 600/1200.

You can't just put in big raises all the time to fight aggressive players and I'm not gonna argue with how Ted Forrest chooses to play a hands vs a person he knows a lot more about that I.

[Toro]

But isn't that what makes it so much fun? Guys like me can second guess the pros on forums like this. Similar to Monday morning quarterbacking your favorite football team and second guessing the Manager of your favorite baseball team. We all know we can do a better job. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Besides, I got bragging rights on Negreanu as I knocked him out of a big tourney at Foxwoods a couple of years ago.

[chrisdhal]

[ QUOTE ]
Its important to rememeber that the stacks in this tourney were VERY deep. The stacks in this hand were like 160K and 200K, with the blinds at only 600/1200.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the coolest things about this tourney. They don't have to go all in all the time to make plays. Add to the fact that FSN is actually showing a ton of hands and it makes for great TV poker-wise.

How many episodes are left, one? They have that "Superstars" one coming up on the 15th I think, so this week has got to be the last, isn't it?