Experts please help

I notice a very common phenomenon at the tables, which is that lots of players put EVERY raiser on Ak or the like every time. Therefore, they never fold a pair no matter what, especially when the pot is three handed or less. If an ace comes, they put their opponent on KQ.


Is this the the correct thing to do? I try it sometimes but every time I'm wrong. If I start letting go too much, I start seeing a LOT of unimproved AK and AQs flashed on the turn when I muck. When I start playing the pairs aggressively after no ace comes, I lose to overpairs. What's the secret?


natedogg

nate-web@thegrovers.com

I'm willing to bet that you are calling too many raises with hands that you should either be folding or reraising with. If I'm right, you'll frequently find yourself in spots where you are faced with this decision.

I'm assuming you're talking about cold-calling which I almost never do.


After limping in with a couple others, it's correct to call a single raise just about every time isn't it?


The situations where this scenario happens with me is almost always me holding a small pocket pair and getting aggressive heads up preflop or finding myself in a heads up pot on the flop after some stragglers drop.


This seems to be a tricky situation that is hard to play but I find lots of players winning pots by just holding onto any pair when there's no ace on board vs. a preflop aggressor.


I find that when I play that way, I lose the pot to overpairs most of the time. And if I start folding when the opponent bets, they have AK most of the time.


Is there a secret? Should I not play pocket pairs lower than AA? /images/smile.gif


natedogg

nate-web@thegrovers.com

Look at the situations Nate.


"After limping in with a couple others, it's correct to call a single raise just about every time isn't it?


The situations where this scenario happens with me is almost always me holding a small pocket pair and getting aggressive heads up preflop or finding myself in a heads up pot on the flop after some stragglers drop."


In this excample you give, you take a flop with a low pocket pair with several limpers and call a raise behind. Not bad at all. Now the flop comes ragged and pre-flop raisor bets. Rest of the field fold. Should you keep him honest? Preferably not. When betting into a large field of opponents, he is far more likely to have something more than just strong overcards. If you decide to keep him honest, it will cost you two big bets if you are worse and you will often gain only one big bet as AK/AQ will (correctly) take a free showdown.


You may take one card off on the flop if it's five-way raised, there's 11 sb's in the pot and that may just justify a call with baby pocket pair given

1) implied odds if hitting against an overpair

2) chance of opponent checking the turn. Pocket pair (even value betable against some opponents) good!!


Now, an entirely different situation is if you are sitting in BB and call a raise heads-up from MP raisor with 76s. If flop comes J-9-6, I would often see both the turn and river (how I *play* the flop and turn is depending on the opponent). On the river, I would say one of the 'keeping honest' secret lies. Many players, tricky as they may be, play very predictable on the river. Some 'gives up' any bluff on on the river when called on the turn, some at least gives up the betting when they have something marginal to check WITH (ie, can win without betting sometimes, like AK/AQ), while others will need a monster to bet the river for value but will bluff frequently.


lars

Ace and King. They sure can be frustrating devils when they show up together, can't they?


"After limping in with a couple others, it's correct to call a single raise just about every time isn't it?"


I believe that's wrong thinking if you do it consistantly. It is fine to limp in with AK much of the time, in any position, but if raised then you should start jamming the pot more often than not. Make sure you don't only do this with AK though, otherwise you'll become a victim. It works with AQs as well. And limp/reraise can and should be executed with a lot of other hands too in an aggressive game. The key is to confuse the bejesus out of those scalliwags trying to take your chips.


Also, if you choose to open/raise with AK or AQs, then sometimes you've got to reraise, but sometimes you've just got to call a raise. The basic preflop rule I follow with regards to AK, AQs is I make the responding play that feels most uncomfortable to me at the moment. My own personal form of that game theory thing you kids are always talking about.


Now post flop, here's how I do it and I'll honestly state right here and now, I am not an expert. In fact I'm a losing player but I've both made and lost a ton of money with big slick so I've thought about those cards a lot.


If the flop even remotely hits me, and I'm speaking gutshot straight or runner runner flush here, I ram and jam the flop with all I've got. I also bet, raise, reraise if a smallish to medium pair shows on the flop, example 77. Now the turn has to show me some significant improvement otherwise I'll fold to a bet, or check fold if first to act.


See, AK can make you a lot of money but only pre-flop and flop money. If you haven't made some kind of very good draw hand at least by the turn, further bets just tend to eat away at your previous AK hand profits. And even when you hit on the turn, you'll be lucky to get more than a couple extra bets out of it. So go heavy when it's cheap and the world is full of possibilities. Once the storm clouds start rolling in, start looking for cover.


I'm interested to hear if anybody else agrees with my ideas on AK. I doubtt they will because I'm a long term loser. Best of luck to you Mr. Natedogg

this ain't gonna directly help you and is so simple, but...


analyzing my game and rereading hpfap, and noting recent comments from mason...


be very selective pre-flop...(i got away from this, subtly)..lol


become a better card reader...i do not know directly , but with your big bet experience , i would think you would be advancing better than most limit only players...gl..gr8 significant post(s),as usual...gl

Nate,


Already you've improved. In your first post you said you get these situations wrong every time. In your second post, you've improved to most of the time.


Things are looking up!


Seriously, I think you suffer from some sort of defeatist complex. It permeates most of your posts. Thing is, knowing you in person, you aren't the type I would expect to heap such suffering upon yourself. How you stay so upbeat, given your propensity to savor pain, is beyond me. But you do, and that's part of your charm.


Back to poker, it's not as bad you think. You can't wait to get beat, so the beats stick out. If you will it to be better, it will be. It's all in your head. I really believe that.


Tommy

"I find that when I play that way, I lose the pot to overpairs most of the time. And if I start folding when the opponent bets, they have AK most of the time."


This sounds like unfortunate timing, selective memory, or a combination of both. But if losing "most of the time" means you won around 30-40% of the time, you are probably still making money by calling down due to the money that went in preflop.

You know poker and golf are very similar games which probably explains why so many golfers play poker or vice-versa.In both games you need solid fundamentals combined with good decision making

i.e.when to gamble and when to play safe.Which brings me to Tommy's comment. Seve Ballesteros

said many years ago that once you reach o certain

levelgolf is 85% mental but then recently admitted

he was wrong that in his opinion now it is 100%

mental. I try to grasp onto this thought when I

feel myself being dragged into the dreaded pit

of pessimism.

A lot depends on what the board is. If it contains two big cards, it becomes more likely that the pre-flop raiser will have you beat. Sometimes you can test him out by leading into him the turn with your underpair. If you're last to act and have doubt, pop him now and then. Just don't get into the habit of doing this all the time. In general, I think chasing with underpairs regardless of how the board reads is a losing proposition.

methinks any man with a son like chaney can handle a few pasteboards falling funny...jmho..gl

This is not set in stone but will give you an idea. If the flop is low be more inclined to continue. If it is big be more inclined to fold. Don't get to aggessive with the small pairs. If its all low and your opponent will check AK and AQ on the turn then bet. But be weary doing this against tought tricky opponents as they raise the turn with AK and AQ. Just call them down. If an ace hits the board lay down because if they didn't raise with a bigger pair they raised with some kind of ace.