Would you call the turn?

[James Denis]

Hi, I'm relatively new to poker; been playing a month or two, and I have very limited experience in NL. I was playing in a freeroll at absolute and was fortunate enough to win, but after I had an argument with my friend about whether I had any business calling on the last hand. I misrepresented the hand to him, so his opinion might change if he new exactly how it played out. But anyways, here's the hand. For background I was playing very aggressively trying to steal blinds from the villian, and I had sort of pushed him into a trapping game where he was waiting for a hand to call my BS.


Sorry I'm not sure how to post hands prettily here; i'll just cut and paste.

Stage #25658409: Holdem Multi ARP Tournament No Limit $5000 [2004-07-22 02:04:33]
Seat 5 - WESTARKEEN $224276 in chips
Seat 9 - Villain $116224 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 5] ***
Villain - Post small blind $5000
WESTARKEEN - Post big blind $10000
WESTARKEEN - Pocket [8c,Jc]
Villain - Calls $5000
WESTARKEEN - Checks
*** FLOP [10c,Ks,9h] ***
Villain - Checks
Westarkeen - Bets $20000
Villain - Calls $20000
*** TURN [10c,Ks,9h,3d] ***
Villain - Checks
WESTARKEEN - Bets $60000
Villain - All-In(Raise) $60000 to $86224
WESTARKEEN - Calls $26224
*** RIVER [10c,Ks,9h,3d,Jd] ***


Tell me what you think. When I my friend about the hand, I thought I had made a bigger call. For example if I lose I thought the situation would have put me at like 70,000 chips versus about 200,000, whereas if I didn't call I would be at about 130,000 chips versus 140,000 chips. His point was that I know I am behind when the guy comes over the top on the turn, and the chip lead is too important to give up even though I may hit the straight on the river. My position was that even if it was a bigger call, I felt I had 8 clean outs and about 6 to 1 odds to win it all right there, whereas if i lost i might be able to steal enough blinds to get back in a leading chip position.

But tell me what you think. I'll post the results below. I had put the villain on K 3 based on his semi-passive play before when I made the call.

[James Denis]

Results:

*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($232448:$232448,$0)
Board [10c,Ks,9h,3d,Jd]
WESTARKEEN - Total ($232448) HI:($232448)One pair, jacks [8c,Jc - B:Jd,P:Jc,B:Ks,B:10c,B:9h]
Villain - HI:One pair, threes [Ad,3h - P:3h,B:3d,P:Ad,B:Ks,B:Jd]

[Hiding]

I think the 26K call for over 200K is easy. The pot is so big at this point he doesnt have enough chips to drive you out from almost any draw. Out of curiosity, why bet the 60K when he has ~85K left? Why not force the all-in yourself?

[James Denis]

That's a good question, why not go all-in myself? I guess the answer is habit. I had been playing kind of methodically making only pot sized bets even when I hit a hand or when i was bluffing. It made it so that first, my opponent had more trouble telling when my hand was legitimate, and second that whenever he did call a bet on the flop, he knew that there was a very good chance that it meant he would have to go all-in by the river. For instance, I bet 20k flop, and he knows i'll probably bet 60k on the turn. For him to make the call, he essentially has to go all-in. So it was like i risk 20, he risks everything, and so forth.

The disadvantage is of course, that the villain gets to pick and choose the showdown hands. But it just seems like he has to fold so many other hands that I'm paying for the times he traps me with the blinds I stole from him.

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]

The disadvantage is of course, that the villain gets to pick and choose the showdown hands. But it just seems like he has to fold so many other hands that I'm paying for the times he traps me with the blinds I stole from him.

[/ QUOTE ]

just remember- if you play this way the villan is only 2 hands from victory.