A hand from the WCOOP #5 $530 Event

[PrayingMantis]

I'm with 8500T, somewhat below avarage. About 600 out of 1600 still in, if I remember correctly. Blinds 100/200, ante 25.

Folded to me in MP with 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, and I open-raise to 600.

Folded to button (13500), who makes it 1400 to go. He's a solid, very aggressive player. Had some confrontations with him before in the game, he's tough. He open-raises a lot from many positions, and calls raises PF. First time he reraises me like that. I call the 800T.

Flop: T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (pot: 3325)

I check. He checks. Not very common of him to check behind, after a PF raise.

Turn: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet 800. He raises to 2400. I think for a few seconds and reraise all-in.

Any thoughts?

[Zoe's Echo]

I am thinking here that 66 is not a hand from MP that I want to get real busy with at this time. You are still far from the money and even though you are below average chips you are one or two hands away from a top 30-50 position.

I would toss these in MP and wait for real hand - if in the last two seats MP I might make your raise but I know that I can't take a reraise with this hand.

If someone comes over the top I think you need to let it go. You went from making a semi-steal/hope to hit a set play if called to investing almost 20% of your torny chips out of position. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Now that your invested - you check the flop and he checks behind. You then bet the turn hoping to get him to laydown his assumed overpair. When he reraises you I can't like the call. Even with your lead bet you are still only 25% invested and there are many hands that you are well behind. If you call his bet you are 50% committed so if he/she is at all aware they know that you are going all the way if you play it. TT would not be crazy for him here - nor would a flush with two big suited cards.

I hope for you it was the right move but seems like a lot of downside and I don't see much that you are ahead of here.

Good Luck

[Tosh]

I fire about 1600 at the flop. If he calls I am done, if he raises I am done.

[Stoneii]

[ QUOTE ]
When he reraises you I can't like the call. Even with your lead bet you are still only 25% invested and there are many hands that you are well behind. If you call his bet you are 50% committed so if he/she is at all aware they know that you are going all the way if you play it

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't call it - he reraised all-in representing the flush himself

stoneii

[Hotrod0823]

I am interested in the results but have a few thoughts and maybe it will help me play middle pairs better. I tend to over play 55-TT so here goes.

I like the raise PF and the call of the min raise is okay but I think I would fold to the reraise playing it like a steal. Would you call the reraise if you had 55?

With that flop I think I bet out 1/2-2/3 of the pot and be done with it and possibly a check call up to a pot sized bet representing a draw.

The reraise all in following the check, and please raise me 800 turn bet makes it tough for him to call with anything less than the nut flush. With a paired board even that is a tough sell. Nice play. Hope he folded his flush.

Then again maybe he has TT /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

[Jason Strasser]

PM.

Preflop I like the call. If you want to justify making this call for set value only, I don't like this call. It's obvious you didn't feel that way, so if you aren't playing set/fold (IE you feel you can win pots with your hand without hitting a set) its a good call.

On the flop its tough. My hand with Tosh is very similar, and I decided to check. The difference here is that I had position on Tosh, where you were out of position. I think that you can really go either way with your flop action. Out of position, I probably prefer a flop check-raise, as that extracts the most info out of your opponent. But don't do this if it pot commits you. It's a fine line. Did you check with the intention of raising?

On the turn, I didn't do the math, but if your opponent has a heart and a card over a 6, he has the correct call. I hate getting my money in a spot like this because of the flush potential, and the nullify potential (a ten comes) boosting his outs.

I would rate your play with a B. Much further ahead of my 72o move. You overrepresented a very mediocre hand, but you had a read and went with it.

[SossMan]

Getting about 2.5:1 on your preflop call after his reraise, so that's easy. The initial open raise is easy for an aggressive player.

I think you need to bet out at that flop. If you are going for the ch-raise, that's fine too, since it's unlikely that it would get checked around.
Well, it got checked around. hmmm...is he getting tricky and checking behind with just an overpair?? I doubt it because that flop is too drawlicious. Seems like he's flopped pretty big here or he want's to take the free card with his overcard heart draw. Probably AKhearts/AQhearts. He could easily have TT, but it's statistically unlikely (would he repop you with TT preflop??, what does he think of you, what is your table image, have you been open raising light??)
All in all, I like the push...unless he has exactly TT/44/88, he can't have an easy decision, even with the nut flush.
I like the all in on the turn...you are either ahead, or have as many as 11 outs.
A fold is okay too, a call would be horrible.

[Zoe's Echo]

stoneii -

To elaborate my thinking - I should have stated that I don't like investing any more chips in this pot (rather than saying call). With his raise to $2,400 our opponent has invested $3,800 of his T$10.5K just under 40% of his stack. (I just reread that he had T$13.5K left so he's only 30% comitted - I guess your fold equity goes up slightly). I couldn't imagine that representing anything here is going to end up in less than a show-down.

I personally wouldn't like my odds showing down a 66 here even with my 6h flush draw.

Good Luck

[PrayingMantis]

Thanks for all the replies. Here are some more thoughts and more specific backround as to the images and so on. Part of the difficulty in posting hands like this (and receiving replies), is that we're talking here about a play against a player I'm playing more than 3 hours with at this table. A lot has been going on between the two of us and other players around. As I read him as a solid player, I'm sure he pays close attention to how I play, and vice-versa.

My initial raise is pretty trivial, IMO. I have an overall tight image, could be the tighter at the table. The hands I raised PF, I usually bet on the flop too. I had one specific tough confrontation with the player in question, much earlier, in which I layed down AA on a paired-K board. I'm 90% sure he had the trips, as it was the only time during the game I remember he mini-raised on the turn. Otherwise he usually bet much stronger, and force lay-downs. He is definitely a strong, tricky, post-flop player, IMO.

His PF reraise can mean two things: a strong hand or a complete garbage. With many in-between/ok/weak hands he might call: some small pairs, marginal aces. That could definitely be a steal attempt, figuring I might fold, or a pair TT and above, AK-AQ. This is my general read.

I call his PF raise trying a) either to hit my set and win a huge pot, as he's a very aggressive post-flop player, b) try to outplay him if I sense I can, especially if he's on a steal.

On the flop, I decide to go for the check instead of the usual 1/2-2/3 pot-bet in these cases. He saw me betting like this few times before, so he would raise me with a wide range of hands. He won't easily fold, IMO, after his PF reraise. so I check - willing, basically, to give up this hand to a big bet, or to check-raise. However, his check behind told me a) he hasn't hit anything and is afraid of a check-raise 2) he is slowplaying a monster (not very probable) or a big pair, waiting for me to bet on the turn.

On the turn, I figure there's a chance to get some big chunk out of his stack with a weak bet/reraise, representing the big hand now, possibly the flush. He raised me as I expected. It was about the size of raise I thought I'd see from him if he's somewhat worried about what I have. If he only called, OR raised bigger, that's probably the end of the hand for me. I could have bet more on the turn, but making it "weak" felt like the right move against this opponent.

My push was a natural ending to this betting pattern.

He thought for a *long* time, and folded. I think he folded a hand that beats me.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally wouldn't like my odds showing down a 66 here even with my 6h flush draw.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he certainly didn't want to show this down...folding equity is about 95% of this play.

[SossMan]

Well thought out, well played...risky, but worth it, IMO. I like your thought process on this one, PM.

-SossMan

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Well thought out, well played...risky, but worth it, IMO. I like your thought process on this one, PM.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. As you can probably guess, it's not that I had all these *actual* thougts in my head, it's rather like a genereal feel of the options I was facing, as they constantly change. But when trying to put it into words, and more logical analysis, this is pretty much what I was "thinking" at the point.

Yes, it was risky. I posted this hand in order to get replies as to how risky is it (too risky?). I think my tight, trying-to-avoid-confrontations image, played a big part in this hand, as his image (in my mind) too.

Have to get some chips somehow... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Zoe's Echo]

Great read and great play. I stand (or sit) thoroughly in the wrong here. I guess he was agressive but able to think that his overpair flush draw might not be good here.

I would think against a number of online players you would have gotten a call - congrats for sensing that he wouldn't.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Great read and great play. I stand (or sit) thoroughly in the wrong here. I guess he was agressive but able to think that his overpair flush draw might not be good here.

I would think against a number of online players you would have gotten a call - congrats for sensing that he wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I didn't really post it to get complinets, but I'll live with it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, as to your last point, I'd like to remind you that it's 3 hours into a $530 buy-in tourney, WCOOP event with $821,000 worth of prizes, and we're playing at the same table all the time. It's not some random low-limit on-line player I know nothing about.

[Zoe's Echo]

Praying,

Understood the context of the event just didn't know the quality of read that you had on the opponent.

I believe that one of the posters here tried a similar move on an Q7x board with mid-pair with a large stack and got called all-in buy top pair top kicker. My only point was that there are lots of people still in that torny at the 3 hour mark that played in through a small sat and might not be capable of a semi-bluff raise and beyond that a semi-bluff raise laydown in this situation.

Again you knew your opponent here and out thought him - well played and I certainly have learned from this discussion.

Thanks