Damn Doyle Brunson...

[Jman28]

$20 Party NL SnG, around the third hand. I raise KQs, get 3 callers. Flop 5Q7. I bet pot. Get one caller. He raises me on the turn, and I call (even though I shouldn't) and call a small river bet. He shows me Q5o. Turns out that he called preflop because he had won the previous hand and that's what Doyle Brunson says to do in Super/System.

But check this one out 5 hands later:

Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Werkiterperp (1760) <font color="purple">
Seat 2: Hero (55)</font>
Seat 3: BIGBITZ (695)
Seat 4: TheNickyD (1470)
Seat 5: winedge (1063)
Seat 7: acnyc88 (635)
Seat 8: BTNYF (807)
Seat 9: Troy2626 (1050)
Seat 10: howieswin (465)
TheNickyD posts small blind (10)
winedge posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
<font color="purple"> Dealt to Hero </font>[ 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif,9 /images/graemlins/club.gif ]
acnyc88 calls (15)
BTNYF folds.
Troy2626 calls (15)
howieswin calls (15)
Werkiterperp calls (15)
<font color="purple"> Hero is all in </font>
BIGBITZ folds.
TheNickyD folds.
Hero: ok.. make this quick and painless
winedge calls (40)
acnyc88 calls (40)
Troy2626 calls (40)
howieswin calls (40)
Hero: someone just go all in with AA and end it
Werkiterperp folds.
Creating Main Pot with $300 with Hero
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif , 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif , 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ]
winedge checks.
acnyc88 checks.
Troy2626 checks.
howieswin checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ]
winedge checks.
acnyc88 checks.
Troy2626 checks.
howieswin checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif ]
winedge checks.
acnyc88 checks.
Troy2626 checks.
howieswin checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 300 |
Board: [ 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif ]


[/b]

[SixgunSam]

Maybe Doyle was right about rushes. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[kevyk]

I have a theory about this. I think that Doyle IS right about rushes, just not for the reason he thinks he is.

Of course it is nonsense to think that some trash hand will hit more often "while on a rush," but there is a psychological component to poker as well. There is nothing more intimidating than some LAG with a mountain of chips in front of him, constantly forcing you to make decisions for your entire stack. I have seen many players fold a few medium-strength hands, get frustrated, go on tilt, and attempt to snap off the LAG. Usually this ends in disaster.

Put another way, sure it's -EV to play 69o. But isn't it +EV to create situations where your opponents are tilty and uncomfortable?

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course it is nonsense to think that some trash hand will hit more often "while on a rush," but there is a psychological component to poker as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I always thought this was primarily his reasoning. He does mention in the book having some interesting beliefs (ESP at the table), but overall I didn't think he was applying superstition as the reason to go with 'rushes'. I took it to mean that you shouldn't be afraid to capitalize when you are hitting cards. This can go both ways...intimidation of opponents is the obvious one. Also, if you do happen to get a run of cards and really get aggressive, you are going to get opponents that refuse to believe that you could have it AGAIN. And of course, anytime you put in a raise there's a chance that you can take it down right now. I imagine that chance could be exaggerated against weak opponents that have just watched you take down a few major pots.

[Dominic]

shoulda told the doofus who played Q5 that Doyle was talking about ring games, not SNGs. The whole point of playing your rushes is that if you get beat, you can always go back into your pocket for more money.

That's obviously not the case in a tourney or SNG.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a theory about this. I think that Doyle IS right about rushes, just not for the reason he thinks he is.

Of course it is nonsense to think that some trash hand will hit more often "while on a rush," but there is a psychological component to poker as well. There is nothing more intimidating than some LAG with a mountain of chips in front of him, constantly forcing you to make decisions for your entire stack. I have seen many players fold a few medium-strength hands, get frustrated, go on tilt, and attempt to snap off the LAG. Usually this ends in disaster.

Put another way, sure it's -EV to play 69o. But isn't it +EV to create situations where your opponents are tilty and uncomfortable?

[/ QUOTE ]

time and time again. but i'd like to see an online player good enough to constantly put people in ackward situations to where it becomes +EV. maybe there are MTT players capable of doing this when they get some chips, but with the limited time factor in SNGs, i think this type of player will be hard pressed to find.

[kevyk]

Totally agree. Should've mentioned that.

[patrick dicaprio]

i havent read that book in a while, does he really say that?? nice catch on the river. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Pat

[Jman28]

Thanks.. Yeah, he does say that he will play any two cards after a big win.

I just don't think that it is a good move in Party SnGs as there usually isn't much thinking going on, which takes away your psychological advantage that you may have in ring games.

[Cleveland Guy]

Great hand - seems to happen to me way to often. I almost bust, get left with a small stack and pick up a huge hand, or make a huge hand by the river.

I think it's just the poker God's making fun of us.

[Kidd_King]

The thing about playing any two cards, as mentioned in his book is that if you dont flop something big with it, you get rid of it right away. Thats what the rush is about. Sure you could call 72o, and if you luckily fall upon a 772 flop, like TJ Cloutier once did, you'd have it made. No one would put you on that kind of hand.

But the thing is, you have to consider the type of game you are playing. Within the party poker blind structure, you are basically limited to playing premium hands. If you force the rush, you will find you are playing too many pots, and will reach -EV. In a slower progressing blind structure, like Pokerstars, you can build a rush. And like mentioned earlier. If you keep yourself unpredictable switching from TAP to LAP and so forth, I believe you will have +EV especially if you keep running into many of the same players like I do. Plus its fun getting called an idiot and still taking the pot down. And later on, switching to being tight, and taking the pot down. Lol. Hey hey, Doyle told me to do it.