two hands against one player

here's two hands i played heads up against a guy three seats to my left. i was told he is not a local at the mirage 20-40 game. he seemed to play a LOT of hands, but he did fold every now and then. also at one point (hand 1) he is almost down to the felt (a couple hundred away), and at another (hand 2) he is around 3 racks up.


my image at this point is pretty much trash. ive been caught bluffing repeatedly as well as ended up never hitting AK, having to fold JJ, TT, 99 a lot to overcard and otherwise threatening boards and otherwise just folding my blinds constantly.


first hand i open raise in the cutoff with 8s7s. he calls in the bb. the flop is AhKdJd. he pauses and then bets. im 99% sure he's betting a flush draw so i raise. he calls. the turn is Jc. he checks, i bet, he calls. the river is 2s. he checks, i bet, he calls. i show my hand and he turns over 4d2d.


a few rounds later i raise utg+1 with red QQ. he 3 bets, folded to me, i 4 bet, he 5 bets. i call.


the flop is K98 all clubs. i check, he bets, i fold.


comments?

Hand no. 1: You raise with 8s7s in the cut-off and he bets the flop of AhKdJd from the bb.


I could just about never be 99% sure that one has a flush draw on this kind of flop but it's a reasonable read. His bet is an indication that he has a flush draw or has flopped the mother lode and is betting to induce excessive action. Most guys don't bet here if they have just caught a piece of the flop i.e. they rope a dope or checkraise at some point...they don't bet out because they know that you will automatically bet.


That said: man, your hand sucks in the face of this flop. Why not just let it go?


Perhaps, you had to play given your current rotten image. Okay, I can buy that. But if you are that sure he is on a flush draw, I think you might be better off smoothcalling the flop and then raising the turn if no diamond hits. Note that this sequence should tell him that you flopped the mother lode. This then will allow you to steal on the river if the flush misses and possibly even when he pairs up.


Now, the dude with the 4d2d is smoking weed the way he played this hand. I mean, even though you raised the flop and not on the turn, you did continue to bet all the way through. While it is true that you should generally look up your oponent at the end, his call with a pair of ducks on this board is really pushing the envelope.


Second hand: Who knows?


I would call the flop bet partly to try and catch a queen and partly to see if he is going to follow through with a bet on the turn i.e. he may take the foot off the gas thinking that you may have hit KK given your 4 bet preflop. A club on the turn may see both of you check and if he happens to have JJ or something goofy, then you are gonna be pretty damn happy that you called the flop.


Bottom line: the flop fold is probably fine but I'll call one bet here.

In the second hand it seems like you could have made it to showdown for 1 more large bet than you put in if you had just called the 3rd bet preflop. Regardless, I think I would have called him down. If he was playing a lot of hands very aggressively, how can you possibly know if you are beat with 1 overcard and a "check, bet"?


The first hand, I guess you had a good read, but sometimes its ok to just give up on a pot. If the guy is willing to call when he pairs his 2 on the river it seems like you could get your money in against him as a much bigger favorite. He is about even money to make a pair or flush ... in addition, no read is %100. You could easily be drawing dead.

first hand- ballsy play and excellant read, unfortunate ending.


second hand-just plain unfortunate, although the king flopping may have saved you some moola. how do you proceed if rags flop, after the preflop war?

Mike,


Hand #1 - SKP is right. Raise the turn or fold the flop.


HAnd #2 - 4 bet pre-flop with QQ out of position? I hate this. Check and call all the way or fold to the K. Would he really 5 bet with AA or KK? I wouldn't...


Better luck.


Dan Z.

On the first hand, you should fold to the flop bet. You are a substantial dog here against a flush draw, especially if his biggest diamond is the 9d or better. Your pre-flop steal raise is correct but it failed. Move on to the next hand.

Hand one: Forget about it. If you can't get a flush draw out, and even if he misses, he might call on anything. It appears that this table was a no-bluffing zone. You can't bluff a bad player.


Hand two: Not much to say.

.. my image at this point is pretty much trash. ive been caught bluffing repeatedly as well as ended up never hitting AK, having to fold JJ, TT, 99 a lot to overcard and otherwise threatening boards and otherwise just folding my blinds constantly.


first hand i open raise in the cutoff with 8s7s. he calls in the bb. ..


Personally when I've been losing I tighten up especially against a loose blind perhaps that's wrong.

Tom,


I agree with you. I think that when you are viewed as too loose, it is correct to play a little too tight. And when you are viewed as too tight, it is correct to play a little too loose.


So, with a loose bluffer image and a loose BB, I would not usually open raise from the cutoff with 87s.


-Dan

I'm interested to hear what people do when their image becomes "trash". Do you hang in there and try to turn it around? Are you more inclined to switch tables or take a break?


It has always seemed to me that once an image problem develops, you get locked out from a lot of profitable situations. Maybe a better player than I am can compensate by exploiting a weak image?


The only thing I know how to do with a weak image is get payed off more. Sadly, the big hands that this helps don't come along as much as the marginal hands where I wish my opponents would fold.

Maybe it's because back home I play very close to zero hours against any 2+2ers, and here in Vegas they swarm at all tables. Maybe that's why I had to play against you, a 2+2er, to figure something out ...


Picture a player who always raises UTG with Q-10. Imagine the 100's of scenarios that unfold for him, the many times he plays that hand that way in that spot. How often do I raise Q-10 up front? Essentially never. So how could I ever presume to advise that person on how to play Q-10 up front after raising, given that I have no experience, and he has 100's of trials? I can't. It's not part of my design space.


As to your second hand, I know how to muck QQ on a king-high flop after five-preflop bets headsup. That I can do. I've been there. I know all about how to do it, when to do it, and why to do it.


On your first hand, I essentially never face turn and river situations like the one you faced against the 4-2 because I will muck on the flop for one bet, even if my gut tells me he's on a draw. That's because I know in advance that I won't have the required staying power to bet the turn AND the river when the draw misses, with a hand that flops no outs against a pair. I need SOME sort of outs, that's all. So for me, it's best to fold on the flop. For you, I think otherwise. But how can I say? I don't live in your space.


Nice hands. You are ferocious.


Tommy

I tighten up on semi-bluffs and marginal calls. I try to make sure that I play as aggressively as I can according to the situation at hand. I don't want to play over defensively ever but especially when I'm stuck as I believe players are prone to do this where their good hands when their stuck. One option is to pick up your chips and come back at another time. One thing I don't want to do is play marathon session stuck and short sessions as a winner. Really what I want to do is play the same session length no matter what.

my image at this point is pretty much trash. ive been caught bluffing repeatedly as well as ended up never hitting AK, having to fold JJ, TT, 99 a lot


Been there, done that! When my image is trash and my opponent is loose, I try to remember to tighten my play...especially on the cheap streets. This means I do not open with 87s from the cutoff (from the button, I might open-limp with it versus very loose blind defenders).


With QQ, I would see the turn if I had invested 5 preflop bets. However, I might just call my opponent's 3-bet preflop (if the cap is 5 bets), planning to check-raise the flop if no overcards come.