If I hadn't Seen It I Wouldn't Have Believed It

[banditdad]

The nut flush is on the board at the river. 3 people in the hand. 1 bets, 1 raises, and the next player and original bettor FOLD. I couldn't believe it. 2 players fold with the Ace flush on the board.

Mike

[bisonbison]

Unless it was a royal flush on the board, you can't share the nut flush.

[Spook]

in stud if both people have an ace high flush, it goes to the next highest card. and then down from there, so if someone had the king, they have the nuts.

[Brian]

Speaking of stud, and I should probably post this in the stud forum, since 8 people can play at the same table at stud, and there are only 52 cards in a deck, what happens if all 8 people take their hands to the River?

-Brian

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless it was a royal flush on the board, you can't share the nut flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you can. The 5 cards on the board were all hearts. If the other players all have no hearts then the 5 cards on board play.

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
in stud if both people have an ace high flush, it goes to the next highest card. and then down from there, so if someone had the king, they have the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if noone has any hearts in their hands then the board plays.

[cold_cash]

Yeah, but whoever has the highest heart wins. (Unless it's lower than the lowest one on the board, then he's playing the board too.)

[bakku]

This thread has merit.

[Spook]

if. the first bet on a 4 flush is usually a scare bet, a raise is going to be the winner (or a fish).

[Vern]

If they don't have enough cards to deal everyone a river, they deal one community card face up for everyone to use.

Edit added a Link (http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/poker/chapter8-10.php) to Seven Card Stud rules. In this case, paragraph 15.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of stud, and I should probably post this in the stud forum, since 8 people can play at the same table at stud, and there are only 52 cards in a deck, what happens if all 8 people take their hands to the River?

-Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been wondering this too.

Edit: ^^^^^^ Thanks for the answer.

[bisonbison]

Of course you can. The 5 cards on the board were all hearts. If the other players all have no hearts then the 5 cards on board play.

It's not the nuts. It's the best hand out there, but it's not the nuts.

On a rainbow board of AJ962, a set of aces is the nuts. It doesn't matter if the best hand is two pair, the nuts is a set of aces.

This thread has merit.

ha.

[Vern]

There are only a few boards which can also be the nuts,

A royal flush, AAAAK, any other four of a kind with the fifth card as an ace or an ace high straight with no 3 flush. No other board can be the nuts because it is possible for a hole card to improve the board to a better hand. It is possible that noone's hole cards improve on the board, but for a board to be the nuts, it has to be impossible for any other card in the deck as a hole card in a player's hand to make a better 5 card hand.

Vern

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
There are only a few boards which can also be the nuts, A royal flush, AAAAK, any other four of a kind with the fifth card as an ace or an ace high straight with no 3 flush. No other board can be the nuts because it is possible for a hole card to improve the board to a better hand. It is possible that noone's hole cards improve on the board, but for a board to be the nuts, it has to be impossible for any other card in the deck as a hole card in a player's hand to make a better 5 card hand.
Vern

[/ QUOTE ]

Talk about hair splitting. Ok it wasn't the nuts, it was just the best possible hand that could be made of the five cards on the board and was actually the highest hand since the 2 idiots who folded said they had no hearts in their hands and didn't realize they had also won. Feel better now? You've called me out on my improper use of poker terminology while totally ignoring the point, which I thought was somewhat humorous, that 2 players folded when they had the winning hand.

Jesus, talk about being anal retentive.

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course you can. The 5 cards on the board were all hearts. If the other players all have no hearts then the 5 cards on board play.

It's not the nuts. It's the best hand out there, but it's not the nuts.

On a rainbow board of AJ962, a set of aces is the nuts. It doesn't matter if the best hand is two pair, the nuts is a set of aces.

This thread has merit.

ha.

[/ QUOTE ]

And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. You miss the point of my post by overanalysing and parsing. The regulars in this forum really make it difficult to be friendly.

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread has merit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was not necessarily meant to have merit, it was meant to be amusing. I'll know better next time.

[gojacketz]

Flush on board? You have no hearts and are facing a bet with two other players in the hand, would you call a bet? Was the board something like AKQJ9 or AQJT9? That is about the only way I would even think about it.

Gojacketz

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are only a few boards which can also be the nuts, A royal flush, AAAAK, any other four of a kind with the fifth card as an ace or an ace high straight with no 3 flush. No other board can be the nuts because it is possible for a hole card to improve the board to a better hand. It is possible that noone's hole cards improve on the board, but for a board to be the nuts, it has to be impossible for any other card in the deck as a hole card in a player's hand to make a better 5 card hand.
Vern

[/ QUOTE ]

Talk about hair splitting. Ok it wasn't the nuts, it was just the best possible hand that could be made of the five cards on the board and was actually the highest hand since the 2 idiots who folded said they had no hearts in their hands and didn't realize they had also won. Feel better now? You've called me out on my improper use of poker terminology while totally ignoring the point, which I thought was somewhat humorous, that 2 players folded when they had the winning hand.

Jesus, talk about being anal retentive.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there was an ace high flush on the board that included some low cards of the flush, and I had no card of that suit, and there were two opponents and a raise on the river, there's no way I would think that the board was playing. If the board was A-K-Q-J-9 say, maybe I'd buy that nobody has the 10 of the suit...but I don't think from what you've said that its a lousy lay down by those two guys. Not to be unfriendly or anything.

--Zetack

[Nemesis]

They had a valid point, they weren't trying to be rude. Laughing at the people with no hearts isn't necessarily correct. One person could have easily had a high lone heart i their hand, and they would be laughing at you for calling when you had no heart.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Talk about hair splitting. Ok it wasn't the nuts, it was just the best possible hand that could be made of the five cards on the board and was actually the highest hand since the 2 idiots who folded said they had no hearts in their hands and didn't realize they had also won.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the 2 "idiots" that folded are the only ones involved in this thread.

[bisonbison]

You: The nut flush is on the board at the river

Me: Unless it was a royal flush on the board, you can't share the nut flush.

You: Of course you can. The 5 cards on the board were all hearts. If the other players all have no hearts then the 5 cards on board play.

Me: It's not the nuts. It's the best hand out there, but it's not the nuts.

You: And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. You miss the point of my post by overanalysing and parsing.

Me: You're misunderstanding what "the nuts" is. If you think this action is wierd, you're probably not reading boards right.

You: The regulars in this forum really make it difficult to be friendly.

Me: Meh.

[banditdad]

THEY FOLDED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT SEE THE FLUSH. WHETHER IT WAS THE CORRECT MOVE OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL IN THIS SITUATION.

[bisonbison]

THEY FOLDED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT SEE THE FLUSH. WHETHER IT WAS THE CORRECT MOVE OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL IN THIS SITUATION.

was it a royal flush? If it was anything but a royal flush, then you're making an absolute ass of yourself.

[afk]

Group hug, everybody.

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
THEY FOLDED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT SEE THE FLUSH. WHETHER IT WAS THE CORRECT MOVE OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL IN THIS SITUATION.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow! I want to play at your table next time, if you are willing to call a raise on the river with no hearts in your hand. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[gojacketz]

Even if they didn't see the flush, it was probably a good fold facing a bet.

Gojacketz

ps You guys got any open seats in this game?

[Transference]

I officially kill this thread, let us never speak of it again. Any bumpers from here on out shall be mercilessly flogged, not in a good way either.

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
THEY FOLDED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT SEE THE FLUSH. WHETHER IT WAS THE CORRECT MOVE OR NOT IS IMMATERIAL IN THIS SITUATION.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow! I want to play at your table next time, if you are willing to call a raise on the river with no hearts in your hand. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't in the hand.

[banditdad]

Really in what way? You need to come off your high horse.

[bisonbison]

Really in what way? You need to come off your high horse.

There are really three options here, not all mutually exclusive:

1) This entire thread is some sort of elaborate troll.
2) You're drunk/high/something.
3) You're the dumbest poster I've seen in weeks.

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Really in what way? You need to come off your high horse.

There are really three options here, not all mutually exclusive:

1) This entire thread is some sort of elaborate troll.
2) You're drunk/high/something.
3) You're the dumbest poster I've seen in weeks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never cease to be amazed by how rude & arrogant some people can be when cloaked in anonymity. This is sadly the hallmark of the internet poster. People who would never dream of being impolite in person think nothing of being rude on the net. You don't know me and yet you believe you have the right to call me an ass, a troll, and dumb. Where does this right stem from? You're having been a poster on this forum for 8 months? You're writing a piece of converter code? In the 8 months you have been registered you have posted an average of 8.8 posts a day. I suggest you get outside a little more often and get a real life. Anonymously verbally abusing people really isn't a longterm formula for a happy life. BTW, the link on your profile is broken.

[bisonbison]

I never cease to be amazed by how rude & arrogant some people can be when cloaked in anonymity. This is sadly the hallmark of the internet poster. People who would never dream of being impolite in person think nothing of being rude on the net.

My name is Peter. I live in Northern California. That's my picture right below my name there. Anyone with a basic knowledge of how whois works could figure out who I am. You may find me rude & arrogant, but I'm making absolutely no effort to be anonymous.

Anonymously verbally abusing people really isn't a longterm formula for a happy life.

You keep me up to date on the keys to a happy life and I'll keep you up to date on your inability to read the action in a hold'em hand.

I suggest you get outside a little more often and get a real life.

I'll definitely take that under advisement.

BTW, the link on your profile is broken.

Mea culpa. (wait, no. Looks like subq's server's down.)

[kyro]

ok, since no one else is going to say it, i'll try to...

banditdad, you DO realize that just because the ace high flush is on the board, you could still lose to a higher flush, right? If I was third to act, and there was a raise and a reraise, I'd be out of there so fast, especially with low hearts on the board.

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, since no one else is going to say it, i'll try to...

banditdad, you DO realize that just because the ace high flush is on the board, you could still lose to a higher flush, right? If I was third to act, and there was a raise and a reraise, I'd be out of there so fast, especially with low hearts on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh* Yes I do realize it. I wasn't in this hand, I was watching it. I had folded preflop.

My point before the bisonbison et al started to flame me was that the other 2 players did not see the flush on the board. They folded thinking they were folding to a pair of aces. They then wrote in the chat box that they didn't realize there was a flush and that they might have been able to split the pot insteade of folding. Since there was no SD I can't say if they would have won, lost or split. All I can comment on is that they were not paying enough attention to even know what was out there. I found that amusing. I had nothing to do before 6 feet under came on so I thought I'd post something that I found amusing. Perhaps they were being crafty .50/1.00 players trying to misdirect us. Who knows? I do know one thing: don't ever post anything here without first clearing it with the board monitors.

[Transference]

A pox on all your houses!

Bandit, Bison is one of the most respected posters in this forum and has helped improved the game of many many posters while being all in all pretty tactful and patient. If your going to be deeply offended by someone who points out a flagerant flaw in your reasoning then your better off just not posting. He's told me I was just plain wrong more than once and he was correct and respectful, we all appreciate his candor and posts.

Just chill out and let this post die already.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you keep posting this?

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]


My point [snip] was that the other 2 players did not see the flush on the board. They folded thinking they were folding to a pair of aces. They then wrote in the chat box that they didn't realize there was a flush and that they might have been able to split the pot insteade of folding.[snip] All I can comment on is that they were not paying enough attention to even know what was out there. I found that amusing.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*... well, ya know you'd have saved a buncha trouble if you'd put this in your original post. If you look back at your first post can you see how it looks like you thought it was amusing that not one, but two players would be idiots enough to fold when the nut flush was on the board?...which obviously wouldn't necessarily be a ridiculous thing to do at all.

--Zetack

[milesdyson]

I still think that's what he meant when he started the thread. That's why he said "Ace high flush" as if ANY flush with the ace is the best flush.

If you think about it, even if he had posted that in the first place, the thread still wouldn't be amusing.

I don't buy it.

[Capn486]

This whole thread is a joke, right? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok, since no one else is going to say it, i'll try to...

banditdad, you DO realize that just because the ace high flush is on the board, you could still lose to a higher flush, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh* Yes I do realize it. I wasn't in this hand, I was watching it. I had folded preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you didn't realize it, sorry. You would not have made this post if you did. Glad we could plug a leak in your game. Stop calling 3 cold with no hearts when the board is A J 9 5 2 of hearts. You DONT have the nuts.

[bakku]

lmao, this post has tons of merit.

[Haupt_234]

I'm confused.

I am thinking it's like one of those stories someone tells you and you listen for a really long time because it's hard to understand, and then you finally understand and the story is really dull and wasn't worth listening to in the first place.

Oh wait, this is one of those stories..

Haupt_234

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Bakku rocks.

[Nemesis]

haupt is that coke on a mirror with a Q lineing it up?

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
haupt is that coke on a mirror with a Q lineing it up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a bullet going through a Queen.

[Gally327]

I hope this thread is a joke, seeing that the person who posted it has posted 112 times on this forum. If this post was genuine I urge its author to stop posting until they understand how to play poker. I will be happy to help you with your questions on threads, however, keep your advice and your awkwardly dumb stories in a diary or something.
j/k
Ryan

[TommyTutone]

[Manchurian candidate]Banditdad, don't you want to play some solitaire?[/Manchurian candidate]

[bdk3clash]

This is the greatest thread ever. I still hold out hope that banditdad is mostly joking/trolling.

[prayformojo]

[ QUOTE ]
I never cease to be amazed by how rude & arrogant some people can be when cloaked in anonymity. ... People who would never dream of being impolite in person think nothing of being rude on the net.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my favourite irony in this entire thread. According to your own protests, your original post was just a joke, intended to give us all a good laugh at the expense of others. "Look at them," you said, anonymously, "Chuckle at how they can't read a board! Guffaw at their silly play! Poke them with this sharpened stick!"

Was this not impolite? Not anonymous? Not rude?

I learned a lesson in my first few posts here not to post threads intended to show my own superiority by mocking the ignorance of other players. Why? Because better players than I turned my post around and showed me that I was wrong. I used that information to my advantage. Try doing the same instead of turning this into a personal crusade.

[B Dids]

Here's what I don't understand.

How do you know WHY they folded?

[Haupt_234]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you know WHY they folded?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I can recollect from his posts, they had a long and interesting chat about the neat hand.

Haupt_234

[WiredPear]

I know what you mean about the tone. I've become a lurker after several mean comments about my play or level of knowledge. Unfortunately, that is just a part of the experience. I hope it doesn't scare you off, because you can learn a lot here. I encourage you to continue to post and ask questions. Just be prepared to get some harsh comments with a lot of tone.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
Just be prepared to get some harsh comments with a lot of tone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine these can be minimized by refraining from making personal attacks against people who are only trying to help you out.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just be prepared to get some harsh comments with a lot of tone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine these can be minimized by refraining from making personal attacks against people who are only trying to help you out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're just saying that because you're an idiot.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
You're just saying that because you're an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please try to have more respect for my feelings. You donkey-loving buttwad.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
You: The nut flush is on the board at the river

Me: Unless it was a royal flush on the board, you can't share the nut flush.

You: Of course you can. The 5 cards on the board were all hearts. If the other players all have no hearts then the 5 cards on board play.

Me: It's not the nuts. It's the best hand out there, but it's not the nuts.

You: And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. You miss the point of my post by overanalysing and parsing.

Me: You're misunderstanding what "the nuts" is. If you think this action is wierd, you're probably not reading boards right.

You: The regulars in this forum really make it difficult to be friendly.

Me: Meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wendell: Stop being Vehn.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're just saying that because you're an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please try to have more respect for my feelings. You donkey-loving buttwad.

[/ QUOTE ]

You, sir, have crossed the line. My father was a donkey.

[bisonbison]

Wendell: Stop being Vehn.

Huh?

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're just saying that because you're an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please try to have more respect for my feelings. You donkey-loving buttwad.

[/ QUOTE ]

You, sir, have crossed the line. My father was a donkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're sterile then.

--Zetack

[bisonbison]

If your father was a donkey and your mother was a horse, then your father really was a horse's ass.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
If your father was a donkey and your mother was a horse, then your father really was a horse's ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or he regularly made good use of a horse's ass.

[sfer]

Meh is a common Vehn-ism.

[bisonbison]

Meh is a common Vehn-ism.

Wendell, I'll try to mix it up with the occasional Guh.

[ErrantNight]

This really is the greatest thread ever.

banditdad: if you really don't know why they all folded you really don't have a great grasp of what's going on in a game... it's ludicrous to suggest everyone folded on a table flush because they didn't notice it... they folded because they couldn't create a flush they felt was good enough to win... and if you don't understand THAT well you're a long, long way away from.. ummm... i can't help you

the rest of you: i've played with banditdad on party... and he was on my buddylist prior to this post... keep an eye out for him :-)

[vulturesrow]

Those two players that folded were using pattern mappers and knew the others had hearts in their hand. Happens all the time..damn pattern mapper...btw does anyone have the latest pattern mapper upgrade?

Chris

[HentaiGaijin]

I gotta come out in defense of the little guy. Banditdad made a mistake. I think he probably realizes by now that better flushes were possible on the board he describes. From what I've seen, the guy does try to post some hands and get feedback. So leave him alone and let this stupid thread die.

[cold_cash]

I second this.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Assumption #1) There are 5 hearts on the board, with a 2 as the lowest.

Assumption #2) I have no hearts.

Assumption #3) UTG bets and four people call ahead of me.

Assumption #4) There has been little betting post-flop because of the scary heart-filled board, so the pot holds 6BB plus the 4 BB just tossed in for 10BB.

For me to make anything on this, all four ahead of me must have no hearts. If this is the case, I will win 2BB when the pot is chopped up. If any of them have even 1 heart (which will be by definition higher than a deuce) I will lose 1BB extra. I'm therefore getting only 2:1 odds on my bet. In this case, my best guess is that the likelihood is better than 2:1 against that someone holds a heart, so folding would be the best option.

EDIT: <font color="blue"> Never mind. I read only the first few posts and had no idea where this thread went. </font>

[DMBFan23]

Apparently, Milo vetoes this.

Nottom, your post was f'ing hilarious, I spit water everywhere after I read it. it also taught me that there was an ignore feature, which I promptly used. so it seems this thread really does have merit.

favorites list, meet this post. this post, favorites list...you two should get along well...

[scotnt73]

good stuff

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
the rest of you: i've played with banditdad on party... and he was on my buddylist prior to this post...

[/ QUOTE ]

So THAT's what they think like.

[DMBFan23]

Milo,

wasn't trying to knock you, just pointing it out. although get with the program dude, talking about poker in this thread is last week's news... /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta come out in defense of the little guy. Banditdad made a mistake. I think he probably realizes by now that better flushes were possible on the board he describes. From what I've seen, the guy does try to post some hands and get feedback. So leave him alone and let this stupid thread die.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't the fact that banditdad made a mistake (actually, several mistakes) in his posts that rubbed me the wrong way, although "look how dumb these guys are" posts for their own sake are kind of lame. (Having said that, I've posted a few.) I make mistakes in some/many/most/all of my posts, so that didn't really bother me either.

It was the silly statements he made, like:

Talk about hair splitting.
(responding to to Vern, who pointed out that banditdad's fundamental assumption--that the players who folded on the river had made a silly error--was wrong.)

Feel better now? You've called me out on my improper use of poker terminology while totally ignoring the point, which I thought was somewhat humorous, that 2 players folded when they had the winning hand.
(missing the point)

Jesus, talk about being anal retentive.
(missing the point, again)

And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. You miss the point of my post by overanalysing and parsing. The regulars in this forum really make it difficult to be friendly.
(pissing me off)

I never cease to be amazed by how rude &amp; arrogant some people can be when cloaked in anonymity. This is sadly the hallmark of the internet poster. People who would never dream of being impolite in person think nothing of being rude on the net. You don't know me and yet you believe you have the right to call me an ass, a troll, and dumb. Where does this right stem from? You're having been a poster on this forum for 8 months? You're writing a piece of converter code? In the 8 months you have been registered you have posted an average of 8.8 posts a day. I suggest you get outside a little more often and get a real life. Anonymously verbally abusing people really isn't a longterm formula for a happy life. BTW, the link on your profile is broken.
(lending credence to the theory that his posts in this thread are an elaborate troll)

[Vehn]

This thread sucks.

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread is still going?

[Vehn]

Well I didn't search for my name until just now.

[ohgeetee]

lol Pwned.

You can't recover from buddy list notification.

Game, Set, Match.