Pre-Flop "Punish the Raiser"

[TL Price]

I don't know if this subject has ever been posted, but have any of you played in a game where you can almost always come in cheap, but as soon as someone raises, everyone left to play at the table feels the need to call the raise with absolutely anything. Sometimes, it will just cap at 4 bets because someone who previously called will raise and someone else who called will re-raise to the max, apparantly to punish the raiser..

Post flop, behavior returns to normal.

Thoughts, suggestions on how to play in this game? I have been checking and calling all playable hands pre-flop save AKs and AA/KK, but does anyone else have some specific strategy to suggest on how to address this particular breed of maniacism?

[Clarkmeister]

I'd be more inclined to raise, not less.

[TL Price]

OK, but with what? You are going to get killed if you raise AKo and everyone is coming in for 4 bets. Even if you hit an A or K, someone will always be out there with a lower pair, and invariably they seem to be rivering low 2 pair. I have seen this occuring all to often tonight.

[Fnord]

...it's like a broken record...

Your thinking is seriously flawed. Search for similar threads or buy a copy of Small Stakes Hold'em for a full explaination of what happens pre-flop in these games.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, but with what? You are going to get killed if you raise AKo and everyone is coming in for 4 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is "get killed" some sort of new slang you kids use for "get wealthy?"

[TL Price]

Well, I use the term "get killed" to indicate that I lose money.

And my copy of Small Stakes Hold Em has been ordered and is in transit.

I apologize if everyone thinks that this post was a waste or broken record but I really have been struggling with this today and was kind of hoping that someone could help. I am new to 2+2, so I am sorry I am not completely up to speed on prior posts.

Anyways, sorry to bother...

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I use the term "get killed" to indicate that I lose money.

[/ QUOTE ]
With AKo, you're nearly always going to have more than your fair share of pot equity against multiple opponents.

For example, against 7 opponents, you'd win your "fair share" of pots if you won 1/8 of the time. Ignoring the rake, if you have a better than 1/8 chance of winning the pot, you are making money on every dollar that goes in. AKo against a field of 7 opponents will certainly win more than 12.5% of the time -- it will probably win closer to 16-20% of the time against the typical range of hands people will play in that game, which means you have a very nice edge.

You are definitely not "getting killed" with an edge like that. You are doing quite well.

[gojacketz]

Not to mention that in the example, you have already flopped TPTK. You will come out way ahead over many, many iterations here...

Gojacketz

[Monty Cantsin]

First of all, I think you are exactly right that there can often be a weird kind of spiteful anti-raiser mentality among certain players. I think they have the attitude that an aggressive pre-flop raiser is flashy and arrogant, someone trying to cook up a hand out of thin air and costing everyone a lot of extra money and trouble because of it. Whereas a reasonable, modest player makes his hand the old fashioned way: on the flop and/or turn. I've decided this syndrome helps to explain the irrational tenacity of some of these players.

However, this irrationality is something that can be exploited. It's an opportunity for the thinking player. If you can learn to recognize it you can adapt to it and profit from it.

Complaining about your opponent's mistakes, and implying that they somehow make the game harder is one of the worst, and most common, errors a rookie player can make. That's why you're taking so much abuse in this thread.

Another error that you seem to be making is extrapolating from a tiny sample. You might lose with AK 6 times in a row. It doesn't mean that you should stop playing it, does it? By the same token you shouldn't stop raising with it. The long-term value of a hand like AK, and the correct way to play it in various situations, is something you need to figure out using logic and strategic analysis. You have to understand why a certain strategy is correct and you can't expect to see this correctness demonstrated for you in the short term. Getting the most value out of your hands requires the ability to see beyond short-term results.

/mc

[pokerkai]

I have to agree with the previous posts. Your thinking is flawed. You are making money every time cash is put into the pot when you have the best hand, whether it be preflop, flop, turn or river.

Punish them back with your made hands. Make them pay for the priviledge of outdrawing you. Youll find your hands will hold up a fair share of the times and youll be the one getting the last laugh.

[TL Price]

maurile/gojacketz/pokerkai & especially Monty,

Thanks for your responses. I won't ever argue the point that I am still a newbie and learning, and I appreciate your patience with me in your answers.

You have given me some things to think about, and I will. At least for now, however, I have found an easier table to play at...and I am much better for it. Although I do understand if I am to better my game, I have to be prepared for all situations.

Hopefully as previous posters suggested SSHM will be a beneficial read. I am looking forward to receiving my copy.
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