Ax off --where do they fit? SSH

[JAque]

I haven't read the whole book but where does Ax offsuit fit in the preflop scheme?

thanks

JAque

[maurile]

See page 74, under "Junk Offsuit Hands."

[Beavis68]

Yep, I believe they are too easily dominated, I am surprised that A-9 falls out there, but oh well.

[Luv2DriveTT]

But as Ed Miller has said, and the book reinforces, the post flop play is far more important than pre-flop play.

[Ed Miller]

Yep, I believe they are too easily dominated, I am surprised that A-9 falls out there, but oh well.

There are certainly spots where A9 is profitable. But I had less than 400 pages to work with and a relatively narrow scope. I decided that discussing when Ax offsuit is profitable fell beyond that scope.

[JAque]

I was supprised that in the small blind Ax should also be canned. I would have thought that calling in the SB hoping for 2 pairs (with a flop of small cards) , drawing to the nut flush with the first 3 cards or taking one off to small pair on a flop like 572 with A5 will have been profitable.

JAque

[Ed Miller]

I was supprised that in the small blind Ax should also be canned.

As I said, there are relatively frequent situations where Ax offsuit is marginally profitable. I decided that enumerating these was beyond the scope of the book.

There is a lot to poker. I had to fit what I felt were the MOST IMPORTANT ideas for loose games into less than 400 pages. The fine points of playing Ax offsuit didn't make the cut.

EDIT: FWIW, I play Ax offsuit from the small blind relatively frequently.

[easypete]

I just ran through my PT db and filtered for hands in the SB.

I usually play the Axo in the SB as long as there's no raise ahead. This is what I got:

5,745 hands from Small blind:
A9o: -0.22BB/hand (45 times)
A8o: -0.29BB/hand (63 times)
A7o: -0.24BB/hand (50 times)
A6o: -0.44BB/hand (51 times)
A5o: -0.12BB/hand (57 times)
A4o: -0.38BB/hand (53 times)
A3o: -0.36BB/hand (57 times)
A2o: -0.18BB/hand (55 times)

So, if I did my math correct, A9o-A2o... I lost 120.01 BB for 431 hands... a total of 0.278 BB/hand. So really this is break even for me (seeing that I have to pay 0.25BB in the SB).

So, for me, I think I will continue to complete in the SB as long as there's no raise.

[highlife]

if i were you i'd just play A2, A5 and A9 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MicroBob]

i agree...the database clearly indicates that these are superior hands.


i mean, seriously, what were you smoking when you played all those A4o's and A6o's?
everyone knows those hands suck. A5 and A2 are The Bomb!!!

[Nottom]

In the muck.

[Gally327]

I think the only positives that come from playing these offsuit Ax's is when you flop two pair or a straight draw. Other than that, you cannot always think your Ace is good with no kicker and also that your pair of fours are going to hold up in a loose low limit game. I dont think you lose much by folding them in this position because it hinders your ability to play well after the flop. You always have to protect a low hand that could be beat already, or play timid from kicker problems. Its too hard to play these hands well post flop unless you flop a monster or a good draw.
"Thats that street love and I return it...Respect though, you gotta earn it, so let's play playa."
Ryan

[Luv2DriveTT]

Of course I will consider playing A6 & A4 (especially suited) heads up or with 3-4 opponents at the table... the odds are slightly better at that point.

[Sarge85]

The fact that they didn't show up in the book should probably give you an indication of where they fit in.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif