Cloutiers PL/NL Book

[jtnt1096]

I have heard good and bad about this book. Can someone give me the low down on the good/bad and why they recommend it or not?

Thanks.

[deacsoft]

Cloutier is one of the greatest players of all time. There may be better books out there, by why would you not read it? No one can say they read it and didn't learn or get better at something. Any time one of the best poker players in the world wants to offer me advice I'll look it over/hear it out. Certainly if it only costs <$30.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Cloutier is one of the greatest players of all time. There may be better books out there, by why would you not read it? No one can say they read it and didn't learn or get better at something. Any time one of the best poker players in the world wants to offer me advice I'll look it over/hear it out. Certainly if it only costs <$30.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it and didn't get better from, way too weak tight. It just isn't a good book, plain and simple. BTW, TJ is one of my favorite players of all time.

[deacsoft]

You can seriously tell me you learned nothing? Not even one little thing that may someday win or save you a couple bets? If you didn't, no problem. I'm just realy that curious.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
You can seriously tell me you learned nothing? Not even one little thing that may someday win or save you a couple bets? If you didn't, no problem. I'm just realy that curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I learned nothing I didn't know. In fact, if I followed the advice (in general) in that book I'd be a worse player not better. Again, nothing against TJ, it's just a sad book.

[deacsoft]

Thanks for the heads up. I already purchased the book but haven't yet begun reading it. I guess I know what to expect. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[djack]

You made this statement...

[ QUOTE ]
Cloutier is one of the greatest players of all time. There may be better books out there, by why would you not read it? No one can say they read it and didn't learn or get better at something.

[/ QUOTE ]

...before you even read the book?

[Beavis68]

It is a good book, but just how it will apply to your game is the question. This is book was really written about big tournaments with giant starting stacks.

The typical touranment, I don't know of you could fold AA on a flop of KQ3.

[deacsoft]

I have read others and am familiar with his career. He's written/co-written more than one book, you know. I have more than enough information to make that statement.

[Nick_Foxx]

i wouldnt recommend it - i got it and it instantly made me a folding station

[Oski]

He turned me into a newt.

[djack]

it doesn't seem so.

[DerrekL]

I don't much care to be negative about peoples work, but I think 2+2ers deserve to know the following:

I'm not really happy with the book. Almost every starting hand he talks about except pocket aces begins with, "Now this is a hand you have to be careful with." Or something close to that. What kind of advice is that? Additionally, if you ever sit at a table with him, you'll notice he plays NOTHING like this book recomends. A lot of NL books are afraid to say things like, "Sometimes you gotta re-raise all-in with nothing". "You may want to be more aggressive and bluff more frequently against players who play many hands." "Keep track of who can lay top pair down, and raise this player more often." TJ's book doesn't come close to saying this stuff, instead he says something like, "Pocket kings are a hand you gotta be really careful with, be prepared to lay it down."

Someone else did mention a good point, the book is intended more for long multi-day tourneys, where weak tight cautous play may be useful. But, since most of us aren't playing $10,000 buy in tourneys I'd suggest borrowing someone elses copy for a day, and then returning it after you understand every hand is vulnerable.

[deacsoft]

Who are you, again?

[eagletmr]

this book is great for tournament strategy. However, I think it is too weak/tight for mid to high limit cash games.

[eagletmr]

I definitely agree with this post. If you are playing the WCOOP with a big starting stack and 30 minute online poker blinds, or a major B&M tourney. But it won't work on say, a party tourney with 15 minute blinds and 1000 dollar stacks. You have to be a little looser, especially since the players are so bad. Cloutier has had a lot of B&M success, and this book reflects a B&M style.

[djack]

[ QUOTE ]
Who are you, again?

[/ QUOTE ]
Someone who doesn't give advice that I'm not qualified to give.

[deacsoft]

You're, certainly, not qualified to question my qualifications for giving advice.

[DerrekL]

I'm just a poker player with an opinion of TJ's book /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
this book is great for tournament strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't. It's terrible.

[_And1_]

well, all in all, there are a couple of books that are alot better... So dont buy it if you dont have them already...