<Darn> you, Jason Strasser! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Moozh

08-01-2004, 03:23 AM

I spent some time watching Jason's tourney replay a couple days back and was very impressed with the concept taking advantage of the bubble as the big stack. I'm still a new player when it comes to SNGs (<100), so I've been constantly looking for ways to add to my game.

The next day or so, I took the time to read through Mantis' Folding Equity post. As far as I'm concerned, that post is right on the money and highlights a number of errors I've been making at the 10+1 level.

So, of course, today I completely fail to put the two together. As I said, I've been looking to add things to my game and am more than willing to experiment, but today I think my experiment taught me something. Was I wrong to try this at all? Did I take it too far? (I fired again on the flop because I figured he would have missed.)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1360)
Moozh (t3425)
SB (t995)
BB (t2220)

Preflop: Moozh is Button with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, Moozh raises to t900, SB folds, BB calls t600.

Flop: (t1950) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Moozh bets t1000, BB raises to t1320 (All-In), Moozh calls t320.

Turn: (t4590) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t4590) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t4590
Main Pot: t4590 (t4590), between Moozh and BB. > Pot won by BB (t4590).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 8d Td (flush, ace high).
Moozh shows 4c 8s (high card, ace).
Outcome: BB wins t4590. 

Thanks,

Moozh

Moozh

08-01-2004, 03:28 AM

Let me add that my read on all three were similar. They all seemed somewhat decent and were able to fold to raises.

Also, of some import, I had stolen the blinds the previous hand after a 900 bet with A3o (not shown). I had folded the previous 5 hands before that.

River2Pair

08-01-2004, 03:35 AM

Wow! What a great board for T8s!

pokenum -h kc ks - td 8d -- 7d 3d 6h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7d 3d 6h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kc 517 52.22 473 47.78 0 0.00 0.522
Td 8d 473 47.78 517 52.22 0 0.00 0.478

pokenum -h as ks - td 8d -- 7d 3d 6h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7d 3d 6h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ks 366 36.97 624 63.03 0 0.00 0.370
Td 8d 624 63.03 366 36.97 0 0.00 0.630

He got very lucky to outflop what you were representing.

stupidsucker

08-01-2004, 04:20 AM

If you are going to bully the table, you have to do it right.

#1 this kind of play doesnt work as well at a 10+1 tourney.
#2 3xBB isnt enough to be scary at all
#4 after seeing this flop you cant just bet 1k, you need to push or check it down, and you probably dont want to mess with the only stack at the table that can hurt you.

#1 being the most important here imo. Jason was playing a much higher limit involving more sophisicated players. You were playing a table that most BB's feel its ok to call an all in with any ace.

You have the right idea, and you are on the right track, but I hope you can see why what you did was different then what he was doing.

Keep up the good aggression, but no need to senselessly bet 3x the BB with any two, and then double him up on a shoty draw.

Tosh

08-01-2004, 01:22 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (3 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB (t4060)
Button (t2040)
Hero (t3900)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to t1000, BB calls t600,

Flop: (t2000) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t1000, BB calls t1000.

Turn: (t4000) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: (t4000) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t1900 (All-In), BB folds.

Final Pot: t5900
Main Pot: t4000 (t4000), won by Hero.
Pot 2: t1900 (t1900), returned to Hero.

Jason Strasser

08-01-2004, 01:46 PM

Im honored!!

If I was to make this play, it would definitely be to push preflop. The BB is 300, and your opponents have less than 10xBB. I bet it would've worked out much better that way...

Keep trying, /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
-Jason

PrayingMantis

08-01-2004, 03:34 PM

Your hand here is a good example for the point I was refering to in the FE thread. You CAN'T push around players who don't understand anything about PF hand value, and the difference between applying aggression and simply calling, specifically on the bubble. And many players are like that at the $10+1 level. BB's call of your PF raise with his T8s is absolutely terrible. It's possible you just had the wrong read on him, however, I suspect that such a player made some very marginal moves (calls?) early on too.

Another point is that generally speaking, a better situation to use bubble aggressiveness is when there's a very short stack around, who had already acted (preferably folded) in front, and you are attacking 2nd and 3rd stack. It's a bit more problematic to do it when short stack is behind you, and has only 3 BBs before posting. He's in a desperate mode, and will usually call with a wider range of hands. But with different kinds of players it will work differently, of course.

Anyway, it's a nice try, and I think it's good you're thinknig about your game and working on your bubble aggression, no matter what buy-in.

Moozh

08-01-2004, 04:31 PM

Thanks for the replies. Yes, looking back, it's very clear that if I'm going to make this play, it needs to be a push, not a 3x raise (and if not pre-flop, then on the flop).

It was also a mistake to make this play before the small stack acted. A quick question: in this situation where the mid stack and I are 'across' the table from each other, will there ever be a good situation to try and make this play?

Anyway, I think I'm going to avoid moves like this for now. I've decided it probably isn't best to do stuff like this at 10+1.

Oh, and thanks for the ecouragement. I appreciate it!

Moozh

Moozh

08-01-2004, 04:34 PM

Interesting hand Tosh. The play certainly seemed to work for you. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Could you let us know what level buy-in that was at? Also, do you think the fact that you were three-handed and off the bubble had any significance? Thanks,

Moozh

Tosh

08-01-2004, 09:03 PM

64+6 (winner take all - that is the key thing).