Good, bad, ugly? (Slowplaying pocket kings)

[Mr. D]

What do you all think of slowplaying pocket kings on the button towards the middle of a SnG ($22 party)? I did, with the intention of pushing if no ace flopped and it cost me my stack on account of someone hitting trips. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking (well, actually I was thinking I read that this is a good play in the Reuben/Ciaffone Big-Bet book.. but loosely applied book knowledge is just trouble) and I expect I'll get berated for this one. Anyways, I'm wondering if there is any merit to this play? Maybe as a Stop and go? Here's the hand:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed)

SB (t1175)
BB (t600)
UTG (t3635)
MP (t1495)
CO (t345)
Hero (t750)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls t50, Hero calls t50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t200) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets t50</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t700 (All-In)</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to t1125 (All-In)</font>, BB folds, CO folds.

Turn: (t2075) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t2075) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2075

[DJGroove]

I find, more often than not, that slowplaying anything preflop is a bad idea. You are just asking someone to hit something.

I reserve slowplaying for something like a made boat with a flush draw on the flop. To make a good second best for someone else.

[River2Pair]

Here is a slow play that worked out. Well, actually, notice that nobody limped along with me. They either sensed trouble with me limping UTG after folding about 27 of the first 30 hands, or they all had 72, J5, and the like. If I open raised I think I would have only picked up the blinds though.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed)

Button (t760)
SB (t1215)
BB (t660)
Hero (t1330)
UTG+1 (t1885)
MP1 (t980)
MP2 (t330)
CO (t840)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls t50, <font color="666666">5 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (t150) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets t200</font>, Hero calls t200, SB folds.

Turn: (t550) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t550) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets t410 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t410.

Final Pot: t1370

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 8d 6h (one pair, aces).
Hero shows As Ah (four of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins t1370. </font>

[naphand]

Raise this PF, the amount depends on what you judge cuts the field down to HU.

All-in on the flop is horrible, too many ways to lose this hand. I know a paired board makes it less likely anyone has hit, but you can be sure your all-in gets called by any 8, and probably the flush draw as well, maybe a J. Instead of a dominated hand, this becomes a coin-flip situation against 3 hands, with you the dog. With K /images/graemlins/club.gif it would be marginally better.

[Hood]

Um, with an overpair, don't you want to get called by flush-draws and Js? Yes, you'll get called with someone with an 8. You'll also take down the pot most of the time too.

I don't see how else to play on the flop. You have to raise this with the flush-draw on. A bet of 200-300 would be comitting yourself.

I'm rather confused by the 'against 3 hands... coin-flip... you as the dog' bit. Why are you up against 3 hands when you go all in - how do you know they'll call? Isn't a coin against 3 players a good situation? And how can you be a dog in a coin-flip?

[MikeGuz]

Personally I think limping in this situation is as bad a play in NL poker there is. YOu have to make a raise here your KK are not playing well in 4 way pot. Maybe a smallish raise on the button with no limpers is in order but I am not losing all my chips in an unraised pot. Only exception is IF I know the blinds are overly aggressive and will reraise a small button raise thinking it is a steal.

Size of the raise is table dependent.

Now if you are at a table where some players just aren't gonna let a flop go without a raise then by all means limp raise but it is a very risky play to see a multi way hand with no raise.

[anatta]

I wouldn't slowplay here. The plan to slowplay and push all in on the flop is a bad one if you are seeing the flop with three other opponents. I see that your stack is getting low, but the blinds are still 50 and you have some other small stacks there too. I would raise the flop, try to get it headsup. Then you will probably be pushing allin, since you will have about 600. But this is much less risky if you are up against only one opponent.

Maybe you should look at page 66 of Reuben and Ciaffone. They give 3 criteria for slowplaying AA or KK. 1. Headsup. 2. Position. 3. Chips (basically you want your opponent to not be so deep so that you can raise his flop bet and set him allin easily).

And this is against a preflop raiser. Here, he limped. Nobody might bet into you. If your decent sized allin gets called by one of three guys, don't you think one pair might not be good. Bad plan. Looks like you give a crowd a cheap shot to beat you, most of the time all fold and you win a small pot, the rest of the time you are done.

[patrick dicaprio]

is your real name "Mr.X?" (for those who have read his book)

Pat