Folding AK pre flop

[fnord_too]

10K stack (150% of average), blinds 150/300

AKo 3 to the left of the BB

utg, very strong player who has me covered by 1 or 2 k opens for 900.

I think for a couple of secs and muck.

There are about 80 people left at this point, top 20 pay.

Too fearful? I hate getting involved with a good player who is showing strength with only the nut nothing, especially when he can bust me. Thoughts?

[Roman]

if you are scared, then flat call and go from there.

[fnord_too]

I don't like flat calling. AK looses a lot of it's pre flop value if there is no chance of folding your opponent. Against most of the people in that tourney, I raise there, but im not sure about what to do against an utg raise from a good player. Here's some thoughts:

He has AA, KK, QQ, JJ or AQ I think. AQ I'm in great shape, AK even, and the rest I'm behind of. So, 12 I am ahead of, 9 I'm tied with, 3 I'm waaay behind, 3 I'm well behind, and 32 I'm slightly behind. I'm not sure he lays down QQ or JJ, I doubt he does here. I don't know, was not a pleasant decision. AK was my trouble hand all night, lost most of my stack a while later when I played AK horribly after a missed flop against pocket 7's.

[renodoc]

Well, this seemed like a good pre-flop lay down to me. I mean, I took forever to call the first player, and then get reraised. (Except for the fact that any decent player would have seen that I was pot committed.) Idiocy again.... $30 MTT with 628 entrants.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed)

MP3 (t2185)
CO (t840)
Button (t495)
Hero (t1750)
BB (t3605)
UTG (t1225)
UTG+1 (t645)
UTG+2 (t945)
MP1 (t625)
MP2 (t1290)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises to t1290 (All-In)</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls t1280, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t3605 (All-In)</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Flop: (t6205) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t6205) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t6205) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t6205
<font color="green">Main Pot: t3890 (t3890), between BB and MP2.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Split: BB (t1945), MP2 (t1945).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t2315 (t2315), returned to BB.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows Qh Qc (two pair, queens and fours).
MP2 shows Qd Qs (two pair, queens and fours).
Outcome: BB wins t4260. MP2 wins t1945. </font>

[Tosh]

You had the easiest fold ever first time around.

[betgo]

I can't see folding AK to a single raise. If the pot is reraised to you, then folding is often correct. Depending on the table conditions, a lot of people limp with AA or KK UTG, so I'm not sure how likely he has one of those hands. Although it is a standard move with AK and avoids playing a flop with an opponent you fear, it is probably too dangerous to reraise allin given the ratio of the pot to yor chips. Going allin would be OK if you think he would probably limp with aces. You will have position. Given the raise was UTG and you are afraid of the raiser, flat calling might be a cautious choice.

You say this guy is a good player. Is he a solid player? Sometimes, because everyone assumes UTG raisers have big hands, people will put in loose raises hoping to pick up the blinds. If I'm playing with a table of players like you, I will raise a lot from early position.

[fnurt]

Doesn't every hand lose a lot of value if there is no chance of your opponent folding? Nevertheless, not every hand is push or fold.

Calling is less than 10% of your stack here, I don't think you should feel that bad about it.

[JayKon]

You called 1290 out of your 1750 and then laind the hand down for 460 more into a pot theat was 3500?

I either fold to the all-in raise, or call everything.

[durron597]

You have to raise to 2500-2700. If he comes back over the top you can fold.

[sdplayerb]

why do you "have to"?

[sdplayerb]

I completely agree with you.
You have at best a 40% chance to hit your hand.
If you do, QQ, JJ, etc are done and you win no more.
If you hit your K and are up against AA, you lose all your chips.
You also could hit your hand and be up against a set (unlikely though).

You aren't get the odds to hit your hand and the implied odds are extremely small.

With a smaller stack, like 15x, I'd probably push it and put him to the test. But here you are in a good spot, and chips won are worth less than chips lost, especially if you are a good player.

It is a very disciplined throw away.
I believe Cloutier's book agrees with your play.

SD

[SossMan]

Weak tight police?
I don't really like raising here all in, since it's such an overbet of the pot into a potential monster. A smaller raise isn't going to fold any of the hands you need to go away (QQ,JJ,AK), and you are not going to make very much if you raise, he calls w/ AK or an underpair, and you flop a pair.
I think flat calling here is just fine. It's about 9% of your stack, and you have position on this player. It's going to be tough to get away from TPTK on the flop, but I think this is a less risky play than pushing. If you had a smaller stack, say 5k, then I like pushing. If you had a bigger stack, like 15k, then I like a reraise to about 2500. With those stacks, I think flat calling is fine.

[SossMan]

Wow, Reno...that's pretty bad, I must admit.

[fnurt]

I thought we were talking about the raise coming from a strong player. Do you really think that if a strong player raises UTG with KK, QQ, or JJ, and an overcard flops, he simply check-folds?

[betgo]

If you weren't afraid of you opponent, I would suggest about a T2K reraise. If he is on the steal, he will probably fold. Otherwise, you get your money in with the 4th best hand possible, and you have position.

If he was raising from mid to late position, a reraise allin would be a possibility, particularly since you are afraid of him.

Flat calling is a playable conservative move. Folding is definately weak tight.

[THaDoCTa]

Not a bad fold given you say UTG is solid and you have a nice size stack. If he's as solid as you say and you flat call, you're taking a 2:1 shot to pair up, and even if you do he def. won't pay you off holding 10s - QQs. I think if you want to play here then you should pop him back preflop - like someone else said, big slick definitely loses alot of its strength if you play it soft and just flat call a raise with it. However given your stack size you still have a lot of room to maneuver, so its up to you - flat calling isn't so bad but I would think its generally a raise/fold situation.

[sdplayerb]

to an ace..yes.
not definitely to a K (so you have a valid point), but likely. There stack size is part of the equation.