advise -- what to do when having a downswing

[Greg J]

I post about a week ago about how I had some pretty bad sessions, then it was seemingly turning around. Well, after that post I have been on a downswing approaching 80bbs. I know some of you more experienced guys have gone through these, by I notice a few trends that are disturbing me and I wanted to discuss them and ask how best to deal with them. (And also vent I guess.)

I'm playing expecting to loose. I get KK or AA, I play it like I should, nice and aggressively, but when things are going well I play them and get a little excited. Recently I get a powerful hand and think "oh great, now watch it loose." And guess what? It does! I get a mid pocket pair and say, "it doesn't matter if i call... I'm missing my set." And it does. I get a flush draw with AXs, and say, raising for value on the flop, but I say "it doesn't matter, my flush will miss." And it does. I haven't hit a flush in a week. As I consciously address this while I'm playing, I think I am making mistakes, and playing weakly as a result. It's not tilt... I associate that with anger. This is more like resignation.

Now I'm not asking for a "there there Greg, things will turn around." Statistically I know this. I'm not trying to bitch. I'm just wondering what (if anything) you guys have do when this happens. I'm thinking take a few days off. The problem is I enjoy this game, except when I'm loosing like this I don't... it's weird. Whenever I sit down to play the last few times I'm not initially expecting to loose, but then the beats start, and so does this attitude of KNOWING I will loose.

Even sitting here writing this I'm itching to go back to playing. I'm not on my game though.

So, take a while off totally?

[Malarky]

When I lose continuously I try to suffocate myself with my pillow. What you are doing seems to be working a little bit better, though.

[Dispatch]

Welcome to the club. I hate to say that, but it is part of the experience.

Take solace in the fact that this will only make you stronger. Remember, through much pounding, heating, pounding, reheating, polishing, pounding, reheating and more polishing - well, thats how a sword is made.

If all we did was win, we would never be strong.
Good luck.
Dispatch

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
Take solace in the fact that this will only make you stronger. Remember, through much pounding, heating, pounding, reheating, polishing, pounding, reheating and more polishing - well, thats how a sword is made.



[/ QUOTE ]


Thats some deep [censored].

[tacoshooter]

I just dug my way out of a 90BB downswing, during which I felt my play wasn't off. It was just that I was hitting a stretch where my draws didn't make it or my big pairs were getting rivered by some retarded junk two-pair.

Throw a cold streak of cards in there and it's pretty frustrating. You just have to keep telling yourself that while the idiots taketh away, they also giveth.

Sometimes during downswings I take a couple days off to get my mind right or just cut way back on the number of hands I play. Others say to play through it -- it just depends on if the loss is affecting your play and if time off will get your mind right.

[nopants]

Ever notice how, when sports reporters are doing locker room interviews after the big game and talk to the winning team, the winners never fail to claim that "God was on our side" or they thank their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? Nobody in the losing locker room ever seems to claim that they lost because God hated their team.

I think when you're on a losing streak, it's simply because God hates you. Don't worry, though, he hates all poker players at one time or another. He was particularly vengeful at my home game last week and I was distinctly, and furiously smoten.

You'll get over it. See you in hell.



PS - I'm kidding, people. Since I'm already going to hell, there's no need to flame, here.

[rjc199]

well, I'm on a similar run. Just 10 seconds ago I had AKs on simultaneous tables. On one I flopped a flush draw, on the other I got top pair. I lost both hands, the top pair hand lost to a flush on the river. The flush draw hand I ended up picking up a pair of aces on the turn but I lost to a backdoor flush. I was expecting to lose both hands, but I played them the same regardless of what I expected. Just play the hands the same regardless of what you feel, you will be fine. As long as you don't change your style to more weak/passive and play correct poker you will win.

[chesspain]

I had been down about 40BBs since mid-week. In fact, according to Pokertracker, I was averaging -2.4BB/100 hands at 2/4--of course, I only got Pokertracker earlier this week as well, so it only included my last 800 hands /images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

However, in order to get back on track, I did the following:

1) I continued playing my usual tight-aggressive style,
2) I didn't get irritated at the cards or at my opponents,
3) I flopped a set of queens in a multiway pot, fell behind to a LAG who turned a Broadway str8, and after four of us capped the turn, I rivered a full-house, which was capped three ways.

Indeed, winning a net of 28.5 BBs on one hand goes a long way to reminding one about the variance leading to short-term results.

[Haupt_234]

I've dipped down about 150 BBs in the past few days.

<violin> The days seem much darker now...</violin>

But seriously, I think it is a mixture of cold cards and sloppy play because of them. I know I wasn't playing up to par, but I know I wasn't too far off. I also know that I got more than my usual share of 3 outter suckouts and what not.

Haupt_234

[antidan444]

Jst wanted to say that, since I'm a sportswriter, I appreciated (and laughed at) this post

[busguy]

When the inevitable downswing happens I do the following things,

1) Play less (take more time off between sessions)

2) Make sure that I'm playing tight/aggressive with ONLY my premium and value hands paying PARTICULAR attention to position (so no Kxs or Axs anywhere but the button and the blinds)

3) Step down a limit (or 2) to gain back my confidence. I find I am generally able to push around the smaller limits with my play even if my draws are not hitting as much as they should.

my 2 cents

/images/graemlins/frown.gif busguy

[Sent]

I recently had a 110BB downswing which I posted about and I felt exactly the way you do Greg. I just felt the cards werent coming and I was the worst player.

I really feel that taking a day off to clear your head helps a lot. I know you are itching to play, but if you really feel that way you can take a day off /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Sent

[SWE]

How about playing in a cheap MTT or a SnG?

This way your loses are fixed, but yet you still get to scratch your poker itch. This way you'll be thinking about and playing poker. If you're a good player you should hopefully last to the first break in a MTT. THis way you still keep to play poker without getting too deep into a downswing.

Also, does anyone try playing other games (stud or Omaha ), when they are in a slump. another way to satisfy your poker itch

[cold_cash]

Right now I'm in the middle of a pretty brutal stretch. I don't have PokerTracker, so I can't give exact numbers, but what I do know is that my bankroll was stuck at a certain number for a long time, and now it's way below that number.

I've gotten to the point where I expect to get sucked out on, I expect my big hands to get beaten, and I expect to miss all my draws. I started playing on Party Poker about a year ago with $50, and with a lot of hours and patience I've grown it to a considerably larger amount. Lately I've been wondering how I managed to do that.

What I'm going to do is probably what a lot of players do when they're in this spot -- take a few days off from playing, keep reading the forums and some books, and try to come back with a different attitude and proper perspective.

I don't want poker to become a drag because I enjoy playing it so much, and with my current incredibly pessimistic outlook the game is quickly becoming no fun. I'm just going to try and get away from it for awhile and hopefully that will change.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
How about playing in a cheap MTT or a SnG?

This way your loses are fixed, but yet you still get to scratch your poker itch. This way you'll be thinking about and playing poker. If you're a good player you should hopefully last to the first break in a MTT. THis way you still keep to play poker without getting too deep into a downswing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This might work for some people, but this doesn't work for me. I get frustrated with my losses and try to compensate by being overly agressive at the NL tourneys. Of course, I suck at SnGs in general, so maybe it's just that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Going down the nano-limits and playing NL can be cathartic, though.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
What I'm going to do is probably what a lot of players do when they're in this spot -- take a few days off from playing, keep reading the forums and some books, and try to come back with a different attitude and proper perspective.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a good approach. It help you get back to basics and focus on pushing big edges, not small ones, which is important when you're on a downswing.

[Wahoo91]

I am right there with you in my own 100BB downswing and your post really hits the mark with my feelings during this time.

I have actually just turned the corner regarding my attitude, and in a way I think this downswing (my first ever, I am pretty new to poker) has helped me begin to keep much less track of the actual money. I used to get such satisfaction from winning money, that I had a big mental problem with losing money, at least when I am losing session after session and hand after hand. I never really changed my game during this time, except to play a little weaker/scared. This disapointment with losing did not affect my game, it just affected my mental attitude and made me a fairly disappointed/angry guy (which is funny becuase the actual money at these limits is very immaterial to me, I just hate to have "failed" at something).

Now however, becuase the losses have piled up and become so frustrating, I have simply pushed the "money" to the back of my mind, and simply think about it as units. I have decided that I no longer care about the monetary results as long as I can go to bed knowing I played good poker (at these limits the amounts are immaterial to me, in fact my 100BB downturn is about $90 at UB .50/1.00 and .25/.50). If I just focus on good +EV decisions I fell the results will take care of themselves. I feel much better about things now, and look forward to sessions rather than dread "another losing session".

In fact my last two sessions were about +10BB each, so I have gotten back some of the downturn and I feel good about that.

[imsomoney]

One thing that helps me is to focus on something other than the money...for instance, i'll try to perfect a certain play over an hour period of time. I'll skim a book and pick a chapter that describes good situations to check/raise or raise to buy a free card and keep track of how many times I can successfully use that play in a session.

If I'm getting a slow run of cards, I take a lot of breaks to prevent myself from lowering my standards. During those breaks look over your stats and try to identify any leaks...or do something to take your mind off of the frustration of a losing streak... my worst poker days are my best gym days /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[purnell]

[ QUOTE ]
I think when you're on a losing streak, it's simply because God hates you. Don't worry, though, he hates all poker players at one time or another. He was particularly vengeful at my home game last week and I was distinctly, and furiously smoten.

You'll get over it. See you in hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

You get my vote for post of the day /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[purnell]

Don't sweat it dude. Go do something else for a while. Above all, don't play poker with the expectation of a negative outcome.