Nomar!!!! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

ThaSaltCracka

07-31-2004, 05:57 PM

Pokey Reese bat + Alex Gonzalez bat = Not even close to Nomar's.
Gonzo has been injured for part of this season.
Mienkewitz has sucked offensively, but he still has a good glove, but if you start him at first just for defense, then there offense will be lacking. So, you now have to players playing who are offensively worse than the players before them, the Red Sox lineup is much less intimidating. Less playing time for Millar and no Nomar, mixed with average starting pitching, and well.... you have a downgrade.

I realize that a lot of you Boston fans were feed up with Nomar, but to even try to act that this trade was an upgrade, especially at short, is absurd.

JTG51

07-31-2004, 06:03 PM

Will Cubs fans learn how to say "Nomah" or will he need a new nickname?

Kurn, son of Mogh

07-31-2004, 06:05 PM

Whether or not its an upgrade is irrelevant. It had to be made. He wasn't coming back next year, and his half-hearted play this year has been obvious to anybody paying attention.

He dogged it coming back from the injury. I predict the achilles will be fine once he's in Chi-town. He rejected a very fair offer from the team to extend his contract last year, then went into the tank after they tried to make the A-Rod deal. His attitude was an insult to the fans who adored him. I for one am looking forward to September.

Kurn, son of Mogh

07-31-2004, 06:08 PM

They won't need to, as he'll be in Anaheim next year, if the way Moreno was wooing Ramon Garciaparra and Mia in the owners box the last time the Sox played the Angels is any indication.

ThaSaltCracka

07-31-2004, 06:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not its an upgrade is irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ] There in a playoff race, its not irrelavent. But your right, they had to do it. I wonder if this was the best offer they could get? I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns with the Cubs.

[ QUOTE ]
He dogged it coming back from the injury. I predict the achilles will be fine once he's in Chi-town. He rejected a very fair offer from the team to extend his contract last year, then went into the tank after they tried to make the A-Rod deal. His attitude was an insult to the fans who adored him. I for one am looking forward to September.

[/ QUOTE ] To be honest with you, the Red Sox front office is the one that let down its fans. The A-Rod trade was a total slap in the face to him. He put blood and sweat into the Red Sox, and thats how they repay him? C'Mon..... I don't know if he has been playing half-heartedly because I don't see many Boston games, nor do I read the "yellow-journalistic" Boston sports writers columns, but if he did, I can see why he played that way, its just to bad baseball is a team sport though, cuz he let down his teamates. On a side note, I have heard from Peter Gammons that Pedro and Manny are also very selfish players. The Red Sox really lake unity right now, and trading Nomar probably didn't help.

Kurn, son of Mogh

07-31-2004, 06:30 PM

To be honest with you, the Red Sox front office is the one that let down its fans. The A-Rod trade was a total slap in the face to him.

What? They offered Nomar $16M per year and he said "No." Since they knew this would be his last year with the team, they made a good business decision and tried to make the best of it. What were they supposed to do? They made an honest effort to re-sign him at very good money and he chose to reject the offer.

ThaSaltCracka

07-31-2004, 06:47 PM

its called a contract negotiation. They offered him that, which he turned down, then he counter-offers for 17 mill for 5 years. What do the Red Sox do? They tuned that down and countered for less than the original contract. Listen man, they low-balled him, bar none. They gave him the run around hoping to resign him for under his market value, and when that didn't work they gave a half hearted attempt( 12 mill 4 years) which they knew he would turn down, thus they could have the "neccesary reasons" to trade him. Boston tried to [censored] him and instead he turned around a [censored] them.... good for him.

daryn

07-31-2004, 06:54 PM

oh yeah.. he got us good! we're really screwed now! hahahahah

ThaSaltCracka

07-31-2004, 06:58 PM

yeah seeing how you went from having an all-star SS to two journeymen SS that probably would start on bad teams, I would have to say that the Boston Red Sox front office [censored] itself.

daryn

07-31-2004, 07:03 PM

i like the trade.

one of the bigger reasons that the red sox aren't doing anything special this season is their weak defense. how else do you explain the fact that they have the best ERA in the league, score the most runs in the league, yet lose lose lose and can't catch the yankees?

nomar has been playing sub-par baseball, and i think the trade was a good move.

keep in mind, i love nomar. i HATE to see him leave, but i can't honestly tell myself this wasn't a good deal.

Dynasty

07-31-2004, 07:09 PM

The one thing I really don't like about this deal is that we're stuck with Mientkiewicz and his $3.75 million contract in 2005. The Sox will have a $3.75 million option for 2006 with a $450,000 buyout.

Mientkiewicz just isn't much of a hitter. He's averaged .290, 12 HR, and 68 RBIs over the past three years. This year he's been a dissapointing .246, 5HR, and 25 RBI.

I'd rather have Nomar for the playoffs.

ThaSaltCracka

07-31-2004, 07:11 PM

I think the trade was good for a few reasons.
-Boston shot themselves in the foot with their offseason treatment of Nomar. It obviously affect Nomar, and his play reflected it. So they had to trade him, otherwise that situation could have ruined their season
-Nomar was in the last year of his contract and wasn't going to resign anyways.
-Pokey plays better D, and thats true they do need that.

But there are other reasons why I don't like the trade.
-It should have never been neccesary, and in effect the trade validates to me just how bad Boston screwed everything up with him
-There offense is lacking some pop. More than likely Cabrera will play 2B, Pokey at SS, and Doug M at 1B, and thats probably what it will be most of the time. That is a serious downgrade offensively. Millar now will get less playing time, and of course Nomar is gone..... Pitchers will be smiling once they get past Ortiz.

ThaSaltCracka

07-31-2004, 07:13 PM

its sort of like the fixed some problems but in the process created some new ones.

Kurn, son of Mogh

07-31-2004, 08:29 PM

Boston shot themselves in the foot with their offseason treatment of Nomar.

If you think $17M per year is market value for *anyone* any more, you're delusional. They treated Nomar very well. He chose to play hard ball and lost. Good for Theo and the Trio!

Kurn, son of Mogh

07-31-2004, 08:33 PM

I'd rather have Nomar for the playoffs.

Maybe, but 2003 says maybe not. Theo said three weeks ago that he was prepared to make "changes for changes sake." THis is a team that has had serious clubhouse problems for a while.

Ever wonder why nobody ever pulls Pedro/Manny "25 guys 25 cabs" type moves on the Yankees?

Kurn, son of Mogh

07-31-2004, 08:35 PM

Saw the interview where Nomar was asked how he felt after the trade. Very professional. Said all the right things. Even said he wanted to stay in Boston. Only problem was he looked like a kid on Christmas. No doubt he was happy to be leaving.

JoeU

07-31-2004, 08:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
nomar has been playing sub-par baseball,

[/ QUOTE ]

Here are Nomar's stats so far this season:

Games: 38
At Bats: 156
Runs: 24
Hits: 50
Home Runs: 5
RBI's: 21
Batting Average: .321

Over a full season, that works out to over 200 hits, 20 home runs, and 84 RBI's. I don't have his error count, but these look like some pretty good offensive stats for someone who has been playing "sub par" baseball.

As a Yankee fan, if given the chance to face Nomar or Mientkiewicz, I think I'll take Mientkiewicz.

Joe

Joe Tall

07-31-2004, 10:15 PM

All the scouts say it's a wash.

Peter Gammons says it had to happen.

I'm going to sleep on it.

Peace,
Joe Tall

lil'

07-31-2004, 10:59 PM

People have always accused Boston of hanging on to players they couldn't resign and getting nothing for it in return (Mo Vaughn, Roger Clemens). I guess this had to happen.

Weird to not have him around, though.

bosoxfan

07-31-2004, 11:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather have Nomar for the playoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have liked to have Nomar for the playoffs last year unfortunately he didn't show up. Their problem is not scoring runs it's the defense that has been terrible this year.

ThaSaltCracka

08-01-2004, 05:28 AM

when you choose to emphasis "anyone" you make it sound like Nomar is just your eveyday player. Nomar made the Red Sox good again. If anything Nomar is not just "anyone" he is in fact someone they should have cared about much much more. They tried to low-ball him; thats obvious, they thought they could rely on signing big free agents like the Yankees, but they can't. They have to build players just like everyone else. It will be interesting to see who they piss of this offseason.

Theo is a joke.

bosoxfan

08-01-2004, 08:57 AM

I don't feel 4 years 60 million is a low ball offer. Seeing as Tejada signed for 12 million a year at the start of this season.

Kurn, son of Mogh

08-02-2004, 08:14 AM

Apparently, Nomar called Larry Lucchino yesterday to inform him that suddenly, for no apparent reason, the achilles felt fine.

Good riddance.

Toro

08-02-2004, 09:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, Nomar called Larry Lucchino yesterday to inform him that suddenly, for no apparent reason, the achilles felt fine.

Good riddance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but there is more. Apparently Nomar had told the teams trainers and Francoma that the ankle was acting up and that he would be needing days off periodically and might even have to go on the DL some time in August.

The Red Sox, I think then determined that it just wasn't worth keeping him regardless of whether he the statements were true or not. If they were true, then they had damaged goods and if he was fibbing then they had a malingerer on their hands. Lose/lose for the Red Sox.

Then Luchino called him after the trade and asked him how the ankle was and Nomar said "It's great. . . now!

He's a baby and good riddance. He put himself in the position of the Red Sox trying to make the Arod deal when he made it apparent that the Red Sox weren't going to be able to re-sign him to a reasonable contract.

Kurn, son of Mogh

08-02-2004, 09:22 AM

Not only that, but after being "dissed" much more than Nomar, Manny is having a very good year and apparently not dogging it at all.

adios

08-02-2004, 09:34 AM

Good point about Manny. I think people that thought the Nomar trade to be horrible are remembering him for what he was, not what his current state of mind made him into if that makes any sense. All good things must come to an end and it looks like Nomar wanted out of Boston.

riverflush

08-02-2004, 03:19 PM

The glow around my being is still going full blast after hearing of this trade Saturday afternoon while golfing. I'm almost in disbelief that my Cubbies have grown enough sack in the past two years to actually add good players at the trade deadline. For years we had mgmt. that refused to spend money and was ultra-conservative - and the results were appropriate. These past two seasons under Jim Hendry have been amazing. Nomar's even wearing Andre Dawson's #8 (my all-time fav player) so I'm in some sort of warp zone right now.

And to clarify....we'll call him NOMARRRRR (with a hard R) because we're not Boston, we're Chicago damnit! We don't talk like Ben Affleck here. We speak normally (ha, ha).

daryn

08-02-2004, 03:21 PM

i still maintain that if anything, bostonians are the ones WITHOUT an accent. we sound more like the original english settlers than anyone.

ThaSaltCracka

08-02-2004, 03:28 PM

bostonians desecrate the english language with their garbled speech.

Toro

08-02-2004, 03:35 PM

Now that he's gone I'll continue the bashing. The story goes that he was approached by a couple of fans who said hey Nomah, how bout an autograph and Nomah responded by throwing a nutty that they were pronouncing his name incorrectly. You guys can have him.

riverflush

08-02-2004, 03:36 PM

Nobody thinks they have an accent. I don't think I have an accent and I say CHICAAAAGO and I like to add an 's' to the end of everything...like Jewel grocery store, I call it Jewels (hey, I do it even though I know it's wrong). Think Dennis Farina. When someone says "beef" I don't think of raw meat from the store, I think of a delicious sandwich on Italian bread with plenty of Au Jus and peppers. Polish sausage is just, "a polish".

And...you Bostonians definitely DO have an accent. My mom and her entire family are from Nashua, NH by way of Boston and it's an accent bonanza when we get our families together.

daryn

08-02-2004, 03:45 PM

i'm not trying to say we don't sound different than the rest of the country. i'm just saying, the country started out as english colonies, with people from england living here. somewhere along the line, that changed, but i maintain that bostonians sound the most like the english. do you disagree?

Toro

08-02-2004, 03:47 PM

When I was a kid growing up, we rarely got out of the State. Then to avoid the draft and Vietnam my father pulled some strings and got me into the National Guard right after I graduated from college in 1971.

First stop, basic training at Fort Lewis, Washington State, near Seattle. First weekend they gave us off, we hictchhiked into town and a nice middle aged couple stopped and gave us a ride. After about 2 minutes the lady says "you guys from Boston". We all look at each other in amazement. True story.

riverflush

08-02-2004, 03:53 PM

I have to acknowledge that Bostonians can lay claim to having an "original" U.S. accent, being they are located in the colonial United States and all. You can't really argue with that one.

I will say this...in the news business, they actually teach the "Midwestern Accent" (sometimes called the "Great Lakes") as the proper tone for news reading. Not exactly a Chicago-style accent, I'd call it more "Indianapolis". To those on TV, the midwest has the least jolting form of speaking. Maybe you could call it plain . I certainly wouldn't call Boston or Chicago plain.

Hey, come to think of it, shouldn't we all be speaking like our friends from the UK? Oh, wait, we had a war....

Toro

08-02-2004, 04:03 PM

I'm not sure about that claim by Daryl that our accent is the same as the colonists. On trips to Plimoth Plantation and Old Sturbridge Village where they try to be as authentic as possible, it sure didn't sound the same as the way we all talk now.

But having said that, it was probably all bullshiit anyway. After all, how did they authenticate the colonists speech/accent, go to the Library and listen to the audio tapes?