I'm Not Saying Online Poker Is Rigged, But Do You...

[Desdia72]

ever get the feeling that THE DECK is always stacked against you? case in point: i'm 11 for my last 22 SNGs (50% ITM).

1. i have been rivered 9 times out of this 22. four of the rivers were on the bubble, one was with A K vs A 8, one was with A A vs Q Q (thought i'd note this one because i did'nt get knocked out on this one but it left me severly handicap with 300 in chips and i shortly out with trip Js). that's 40.9 % that i have been rivered to be knocked out.
2. lost twice bigtime with pocket rockets. one to Q Q on the river (flush) and another to 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif(got a str8 on the turn).
3. big hands getting crushed: A A, A K vs A J, A K vs A Q, A K vs A 8, Q J(two pair on flop), trip Qs, trip Js, trip 4s. most of these beats either knocked me out or crippled my stack.

with that being said, "THIS IS'NT A BAD BEAT THREAD!" (i did my complaining and tantrums elsewhere); however, i was wondering if anybody else has experienced these types of beats in so close succession in this short a sample of SNGs that ended up having such a devastating effect on placing and ROI?

like with the rivers, i had alot of river beats in the past but not this many in such a short sample. i have'nt had this many big hands get crushed in such a short sample. i had explained this (the rivers) to some players in a recent SNG where i lost with the A A vs Q Q and when i busted out in 7th with trip Jacks, one of the players said, "Whoa- he's right?" /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

during this stretch, my ITM % has went from 75% to 50%. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

who's had a similar roasting in such a short period by the run of the cards?

[Desdia72]

correction: 7 rivers out of 22 (31.8), the other two rivers contributed greatly to me being ousted because they left me very low in chips, i.e 100-300 in chips. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Sponger15SB]

i'm not saying that all of your posts are annoying, but....

[EvanJC]

prolly shouldn't complain about 50% ITM ^_^

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not saying that all of your posts are annoying, but....

[/ QUOTE ]

see Sponger, you always wanna label me an ARGUERER, but it's always a guy like you that comes in the thread and says something that's uncalled for. just like i told you in MATTHEW's forums, if my posts are annoying to you, why read them or respond to them?

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
prolly shouldn't complain about 50% ITM ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]

not complaining. but when you considered that during this stretch, i've been hit with THE wrong card at THE wrong time so many times--- 50% ITM ain't looking all that great.

anyways, ever find yourself saying to yourself, "Don't let this card come"....AND IT DOES! /images/graemlins/grin.gif now multiply that by 9 times and have them all happen at the wrong time! /images/graemlins/grin.gif after a while, it get's hilarious! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

that's what i mean. it's not complaining, it's like STUNNED
or STYMIED...SPEECHLESS /images/graemlins/grin.gif!

[bball904]

Have you tracked the number of times you've rivered the card you needed to stay alive or build your stack to help you make the money 11 times. My guess would be that it would be around 4 or 5 times. This is nothing more than a bad beat whine!

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you tracked the number of times you've rivered the card you needed to stay alive or build your stack to help you make the money 11 times. My guess would be that it would be around 4 or 5 times. This is nothing more than a bad beat whine!

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, i have'nt caught too many river cards to help me make ITM, mostly because my hands preflop have a good chance to win unimproved preflop anyway. the majority of the time i place ITM is through steady chip accumulation rather than dramatic catches on the MISSISSIPPI. in other times, observing the play of others at the table has allowed me to make ITM without having to play much. in others, sensing when a good hand is beat and making a proper laydown without committing more chips has allowed me to make ITM. i try not to stick around to the river with an inferior hand so there fore my chance of catching a river is lower. i also, don't call many big raises or all-ins with marginal hands either so i guess that decreases my chance of a dramatic spike on the MISSISSPPI too. that's probably why i do pretty OK in $5 SNGs compared to the majority. better to develop play condusive to winning NOW rather than at the higher limits after i've realized i was outclassed a long time ago.

[mcj0014]

Look, I'm getting crushed at the $5+$1 S&G's. I don't know what is wrong. Out of the past 22 I've got 2 thirds and 1 second. Everything goes wrong and I've made a few mistakes. I've read at least 10 books on hold em, am working on a ph.d in math and have always excelled at these types of things. Plus I've played live poker off and on for 20 years with pretty good results. I had no idea that you had to play perfectly to beat $5 sit and go's. Stuff like this is just crushing my ego and even thinking about the possibility that something other than my own play is responsible for my results impedes my progress. I wish it were true that online collusion or faulty shuffling algorithms or the great pink unicorn in the sky is responsible for my pathetic results at the lowest possible level of sit and go. Against the weakest bunch of know-nothing morons to boot.

[mackthefork]

I dunno man you complaing about 50% ITM i have got a line of 22 where i was beat as a minimum of 70% favourite in every single one of them, over half in the last 6 out of 18, what you have there is normal and will happen again many times.

Regards Mack

PS Keep pushing the 9s /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Look, I'm getting crushed at the $5+$1 S&G's. I don't know what is wrong. Out of the past 22 I've got 2 thirds and 1 second. Everything goes wrong and I've made a few mistakes. I've read at least 10 books on hold em, am working on a ph.d in math and have always excelled at these types of things. Plus I've played live poker off and on for 20 years with pretty good results. I had no idea that you had to play perfectly to beat $5 sit and go's. Stuff like this is just crushing my ego and even thinking about the possibility that something other than my own play is responsible for my results impedes my progress. I wish it were true that online collusion or faulty shuffling algorithms or the great pink unicorn in the sky is responsible for my pathetic results at the lowest possible level of sit and go. Against the weakest bunch of know-nothing morons to boot.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, 22 SnGs doesn't mean much. If you're getting it in the with the best of it, you'll come out ahead. If you're not, you have to ask yourself why not, and fix it.

Post some hands. I suspect you're making numerous fundamental errors. You may have read "books on hold 'em" but these SnGs are a very specific kind of game about which very little has been written. Most books will be useless or more likely misleading about how to play in these games.

eastbay

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno man you complaing about 50% ITM i have got a line of 22 where i was beat as a minimum of 70% favourite in every single one of them, over half in the last 6 out of 18, what you have there is normal and will happen again many times.

Regards Mack

PS Keep pushing the 9s /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL /images/graemlins/grin.gif! ...and the AAs, AKs (on the bubble), trip Qs, and trip Js. gotta love that MISSISSIPPI, though.

[mcj0014]

Eastbay, I've got over 400 SNG's. I was just talking about the past 22 because they have been particularly brutal and I wanted to point out how harmful it can be to start thinking that something other than yourself is repsonsible for crappy results. Hell, I clearly have something wrong with my fundamentals. Can't figure it out though other than I call some bets on the bubble that I shouldn't. That may be everything.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Look, I'm getting crushed at the $5+$1 S&G's. I don't know what is wrong. Out of the past 22 I've got 2 thirds and 1 second. Everything goes wrong and I've made a few mistakes. I've read at least 10 books on hold em, am working on a ph.d in math and have always excelled at these types of things. Plus I've played live poker off and on for 20 years with pretty good results. I had no idea that you had to play perfectly to beat $5 sit and go's. Stuff like this is just crushing my ego and even thinking about the possibility that something other than my own play is responsible for my results impedes my progress. I wish it were true that online collusion or faulty shuffling algorithms or the great pink unicorn in the sky is responsible for my pathetic results at the lowest possible level of sit and go. Against the weakest bunch of know-nothing morons to boot.

[/ QUOTE ]

did i play against you in the SNG where that COFFIN guy cracked my Aces vs his Q Q when he caught that club on the river for the flush?

the same guy that clowned me about the rivers went on tilt in two consecutive hands later after all those chips he had accumulated and went out in 5th. what a way to go out after
talking all that noise. even in defeat as the shortstack with trip Jacks and after getting clowned by those guys, i never spoke an ill word toward anybody at the table and i typed, "Good luck to all" as i went out.

[Eder]

hmmm...not unusual at all to lose w best hand all-in preflop...not much folding equity in $5 SnG's.... often better not call all-ins unless you're short stacked...and try raising 3x bb and playing the flop rather than pushing...at the $5 level pushing doesn't get much respect.

[mcj0014]

I don't think we've ever played. My PP handle is stompit.

[Gramps]

[ QUOTE ]
THIS IS'NT A BAD BEAT THREAD

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it is.

[ QUOTE ]
who's had a similar roasting in such a short period by the run of the cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who's ever played poker for any stretch of time. I bet you sucked out on a bunch of people in the 50% of your ITM stretches during this period, but somehow those don't stick in one's noggin as much as when you're on the receiving end of bad luck.

[mackthefork]

You play the 18 seater 5s too man, what is your handle, mine is the same as on here.

Regards ML

[mackthefork]

Are you gonna tell me man, or should i just look out for the weak tight one? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards ML

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Eastbay, I've got over 400 SNG's. I was just talking about the past 22 because they have been particularly brutal and I wanted to point out how harmful it can be to start thinking that something other than yourself is repsonsible for crappy results. Hell, I clearly have something wrong with my fundamentals. Can't figure it out though other than I call some bets on the bubble that I shouldn't. That may be everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

well one thing i want to point out is i'm not blaming online poker for anything. if i raise 100 pf with A A, get one caller behind me, get reraised another 80 by another guy, and i go over the top all-in and he calls with Q Q (one being a club), then precedes to be dealt three clubs on the flop and another on the river for a flush...that's nothing to do with my play, it was the cards. on the bubble as a shortstack (1200 with blinds 100/200
antes 25) and LAG players willing to limp and raise with almost next to nothing, is it something i'm doing wrong by pushing with A K in this spot only to be called by A 8 and have an 8 fall on the river? if i'm the shortstack all-in on the bubble with 4 4 and a guy calls with A 2o, is dealt two lower connectors on the flop, then the straight card on the river, i guess it was on me for even pushing with a hand like this in this particular spot too. how about on the bubble as the shortstack with 6 6 and i get called by
A 9o and the board deals out four more suited cards to compliment the guy's Ace to get bounced by another flush. was it on me for having the gall to push with my hand in this spot, too? just so happens that i ever one of my 9 rivers, it had nothing to do with my play because i had the best of it going in and my hands did'nt hold up when the river card hit. it happens, i understand, but what's got me laughing how many times it's happened in such a short period of time and the crucial times it always seemed to happen in /images/graemlins/grin.gif. just wanted to know if this has happended to others in the same fashion.

*frankly, i would'nt change the way i played my hands in the same position against the same hands if i had it to do over again.*

[mackthefork]

Come on man time to come out of that closet, if i can't play you maybe i can play your girlfriend and teach her how 9s should be played. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards ML

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
You play the 18 seater 5s too man, what is your handle, mine is the same as on here.

Regards ML

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're speaking to me, i don't play many two table $5 SNGs. mostly just one tables.

[mackthefork]

So what is your handle?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not saying that all of your posts are annoying, but....

[/ QUOTE ]

see Sponger, you always wanna label me an ARGUERER, but it's always a guy like you that comes in the thread and says something that's uncalled for. just like i told you in MATTHEW's forums, if my posts are annoying to you, why read them or respond to them?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, if you are going to whine and complain, why even post so we have to read your mindless garbage about

1) bad beats
2) how much money can you make playing (insert type of game)

i'm sick of it because you annoy the [censored] out of me with all this garbage and i'm happy that you came over to this forum with your crap so i can tell you what i really feel, instead of being incredibly reserved on matthews forum, because i actually respect the posters on that site and wouldn't subject them to what i actually think, which is:

you're a troll, always have been always will be, you're worthless to this forum and matthews, and thank god for the most part you've stopped posting there because if i had to hear another lame, whiny rant about how you went all in with the best of it and lost, i'd have to shoot myself.

i read and comment on your posts because i can, i am a member of this community just like you and i can post in any thread i want to, just as you have the right to post, i also have the right to respond as i see fit. i've told you this a hundred times, but you won't listen, all you want to do is defend yourself to no end, classic troll symptoms.

think about this, what are the odds of you still being in a tourney after going all in as a 70% favorite, say, 4x?

Do you understand why your stupid rants make everyone laugh at you? You start up these threads and then argue with everyone who bothers to respond, brilliant.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on man time to come out of that closet, if i can't play you maybe i can play your girlfriend and teach her how 9s should be played. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards ML

[/ QUOTE ]

it just so happens that the hands that i'm losing with happen to be big ones. my PS username is the same. i play alot more hands than you might think. but i'm alot more of a situational player. for example, i will limp with an A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif-type hand in the right spot like an unraised pot preflop and cut my losses short when the flop hits /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif with no Ace, or /images/graemlins/heart.gif flush possibilities. if i'm keen enough to stay out of the way when the whole table seems to be in a betting fest, while at the same time getting marginal hands, and still make it in the money--- that's SITUATIONAL and smart poker, regardless of whether it's a $5 SNG or a $200 one. i've limped with 5 4o recently as a shortstack, doubled up off the chipleader with a full 5s over 4s, and made it into the money. just because i've posted big hands that i've lost does'nt mean their the only ones i play.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not saying that all of your posts are annoying, but....

[/ QUOTE ]

see Sponger, you always wanna label me an ARGUERER, but it's always a guy like you that comes in the thread and says something that's uncalled for. just like i told you in MATTHEW's forums, if my posts are annoying to you, why read them or respond to them?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, if you are going to whine and complain, why even post so we have to read your mindless garbage about

1) bad beats
2) how much money can you make playing (insert type of game)

i'm sick of it because you annoy the [censored] out of me with all this garbage and i'm happy that you came over to this forum with your crap so i can tell you what i really feel, instead of being incredibly reserved on matthews forum, because i actually respect the posters on that site and wouldn't subject them to what i actually think, which is:

you're a troll, always have been always will be, you're worthless to this forum and matthews, and thank god for the most part you've stopped posting there because if i had to hear another lame, whiny rant about how you went all in with the best of it and lost, i'd have to shoot myself.

i read and comment on your posts because i can, i am a member of this community just like you and i can post in any thread i want to, just as you have the right to post, i also have the right to respond as i see fit. i've told you this a hundred times, but you won't listen, all you want to do is defend yourself to no end, classic troll symptoms.

think about this, what are the odds of you still being in a tourney after going all in as a 70% favorite, say, 4x?

Do you understand why your stupid rants make everyone laugh at you? You start up these threads and then argue with everyone who bothers to respond, brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]

good luck, bro, in your future endeavors. your contempt and molten hostility is both awe-inspiring and wretched /images/graemlins/grin.gif. i hope this attitude takes you far in poker.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
that's SITUATIONAL and smart poker, regardless of whether it's a $5 SNG or a $200 one

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you are saying but its a fact, better players stop you playing like this. As a result we would get smashed to f^&( in a 200+15 sng, because the players create more dilemas and awkward situations than 5 dollar opponents do.

Regards ML

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that's SITUATIONAL and smart poker, regardless of whether it's a $5 SNG or a $200 one

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you are saying but its a fact, better players stop you playing like this. As a result we would get smashed to f^&( in a 200+15 sng, because the players create more dilemas and awkward situations than 5 dollar opponents do.

Regards ML

[/ QUOTE ]

that may be true, but even at the $5 level, you have to develop the ability to laydown beat hands, you have to recognize when you can no longer take a hand any further. i've created ackward situations too with my play, but i try not to get too cutesy with it (like bluffing with crap or an unmade overcard hand). once again, it comes down to SITUATIONAL POKER, sometimes being aggressive with an unmade hand in "A" particular spot based on the dynamics of the table. trying to be too cute at the $5 level where guys routinely raise with hands like K /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif or K 10o at a full table is a recipe for disastor, no matter how good you are.

[stupidsucker]

I am dumber for having read this thread.

Please let it die and pay it no mind.

Complaining about 50% ITM is absolutly [censored] retarded, in the short or long run. I dont care if you were 100% ITM after 100 tourneys then lost 100 in a row after that.

I will pay this thread no more mind.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
I am dumber for having read this thread.

Please let it die and pay it no mind.

Complaining about 50% ITM is absolutly [censored] retarded, in the short or long run. I dont care if you were 100% ITM after 100 tourneys then lost 100 in a row after that.

I will pay this thread no more mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY EVEN READ THE THREAD IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY THINGS LIKE THIS....wahhhh /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jurollo]

To those who are complaining about the $5+$1's I have a feeling you won't be good at poker because you obviously arent good at math otherwise you wouldn't be playing the $5+$1's in the first place due to the 20% fee, in the long run, financially you'd be better to play $10+$1's.

[edge]

When you're complaining about bad streaks, remember your good streaks. I just finished a streak of 8 ITM in a row, where I was winning almost every coinflip. It was incredible, but most people won't even remember lucky streaks, just because of how the human mind is fixated on failures rather than successes.

[Eder]

I just monied after bein short on the bubble....pushed A8o on the button...called by AKs...of coz i nailed the 8 to double...3 hands later big stack raises my BB, I push with 10 10, he calls with cowboys...of coz I catch the 2 outer to double again...

The beats go both ways if you're looking closely...

[patrick dicaprio]

the last four times i was heads up against a smaller pocket pair i was rivered, with opponent having only two outs. in three i was all in. so i know of what you speak.

Pat

[mcj0014]

Look, I'm getting sick and tired of hearing that. The extra .5 detracts from my ROI about 10%. My probability of ruin with the limited amount of funds in my bankroll almost doubles. Since I know that I am at best a breakeven or slightly profitable player at the $5's then I'm going to stay here until I see some reason to believe otherwise.

[mcj0014]

Well, never had one anywhere near like that. I'm sure if I keep playing it will happen if I don't go broke first.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
the last four times i was heads up against a smaller pocket pair i was rivered, with opponent having only two outs. in three i was all in. so i know of what you speak.

Pat

[/ QUOTE ]

headsup for the win when you got rivered those 4 times or were they just they in different spots throughout the SNG?
the key thing about my rivers which contributed to them being so bad is WHEN THEY HAPPENED, not just the hands i lost against. 3 of my rivers were on the bubble in 4th which contributed to to me not making the money.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
I am dumber for having read this thread.

Please let it die and pay it no mind.

Complaining about 50% ITM is absolutly [censored] retarded, in the short or long run. I dont care if you were 100% ITM after 100 tourneys then lost 100 in a row after that.

I will pay this thread no more mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you can live with 50% ITM when you can have better, more power to you. if you go back and read the original post, i never complained about the 50% ITM. i did'nt even complain about these particular bad beats either. i simply documented them, described when they occurred (all at crucial times), and asked had anyone else experienced so many in such a short period of time. it's more a question of, "Has anyone felt like the EXACT CARD(S) that you don't
want dealt get dealt out and sometimes to the point where you can PREDICT the card or what spot it will hit at". i'm sure many players have felt like this playing online. then to have it happen so often in such a short period of time and ALWAYS at or near the most crucial point...it's enough to have anybody take notice and say, "DAMN!". to have it happen that often and always at a crucial moment, you start to shake your head and then LYFAO /images/graemlins/grin.gif at the craziness of it all.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
So what is your handle?

[/ QUOTE ]

Desdia72. are you now gonna make it your mission to seek me out to deliver your own MISSISSIPPI RIVER blue plate special?

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am dumber for having read this thread.

Please let it die and pay it no mind.

Complaining about 50% ITM is absolutly [censored] retarded, in the short or long run. I dont care if you were 100% ITM after 100 tourneys then lost 100 in a row after that.

I will pay this thread no more mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY EVEN READ THE THREAD IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY THINGS LIKE THIS....wahhhh /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

future endeavors. judging by all this pent up hostility and hate you got toward me, you're gonna need all the good luck you can get. for you to continuously try to antagonize me and poke fun in the name of, maybe "comedic license", shows how much class you not only have as a player...but as a human being.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
To those who are complaining about the $5+$1's I have a feeling you won't be good at poker because you obviously arent good at math otherwise you wouldn't be playing the $5+$1's in the first place due to the 20% fee, in the long run, financially you'd be better to play $10+$1's.

[/ QUOTE ]

on Stars.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
When you're complaining about bad streaks, remember your good streaks. I just finished a streak of 8 ITM in a row, where I was winning almost every coinflip. It was incredible, but most people won't even remember lucky streaks, just because of how the human mind is fixated on failures rather than successes.

[/ QUOTE ]

playing SNGs. my streaks are like cash in 3, 3 non-cashes,
cash in 1, non-cashes in 3, cash in 2, non-cashes in 2, cash in 4, etc. it ends up where my ITM% hovers between 43% and 47%. all these stories of 7 wins in a row, or 15 cashes in a row with 6-8 wins...i've never gotten that. the best run i've ever had was 9 for 10 and about 4 of those cashes were due not to good play, but to the dumb play of others that allowed me to slip ITM. in my cashes, whether or not a streak is involved, i'm very aware of how much of them i can contribute to superior and skillful play or just the wild play of others.

[slogger]

Desdia, I have a funny feeling that the readership of your posts is going to be declining if these things keep up.

While we're all sharing, I've finished out of the money in 9 of 10 now - I was behind when the money went in on the decisive hand once out of the nine losses. In the one where I cashed (2nd), it took a suckout of epic proportions (because the one time I had a hand, it was late in the tourney and I ran into a hand that had me dominated).

So one way of looking at my streak is that the cards are pciking on me. The other way is that I'm lucky I didn't lose all 10.

It's called variance. Deal with it.

[viennagreen]

being rivered happens to everyone who plays poker... and if you sat down and thought about it, you would understand that not only is it not unusual to have a long streak of (what you remember as) stunning river losses, but it is expected.

my question is: how is this NOT a bad beat whine? you have already stated that you wouldn't change the way you played any of the hands, and if you play as much poker as you let on, you should already know that what you are experiencing is normal.

it doesn't sound like you are laughing. it sounds like you're complaining, with no real purpose but to garner sympathy and hear others relate their bad-beat stories as well... it's pointless.

much of poker is about thinking ahead-- asking yourself "why and what do i stand to accomplish?"... i think that you should approach other aspects of your life in the same way, and ask yourself "why and what do i stand to accomplish by starting this thread?"

[Jman28]

Almost embarassed to post this because of how it sounds, but I've heard a RUMOR (im not saying its true. relax) that party/empire 'punishes' you after you make a cashout. Honestly, I only bring this up because I cashed out 3 days ago, and since, have had the worst string of bad beats i've experienced yet.

I am a 38% ITM 40% ROI player, and I HAVE had OTM streaks, up to 10, but this streak is different. I honestly think I'm losing 85% of my all ins, half where I'm ahead, half where I'm behind. The cards are falling in the way that desdia describes, where ur like 'not an 8' and there it is. I've lost AA as often as I've won it. And, no, I'm not slowplaying it. My favorite was Aces full. Lost to quad Tens.

I KNOW that no hand is guarenteed a win all in preflop. I know that AK is only about 66.8% against 72. But this streak is getting rediculous. I'm stopping for a few days (if i can) cuz im on eavy tilt.

Maybe I'll try to look at pockertracker before and after cashout to see if I can find anything statistically significant. I'm assuming I won't and I'm just being paranoid and angry. But man, if party's games weren't so soft...

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Almost embarassed to post this because of how it sounds, but I've heard a RUMOR (im not saying its true. relax) that party/empire 'punishes' you after you make a cashout. Honestly, I only bring this up because I cashed out 3 days ago, and since, have had the worst string of bad beats i've experienced yet.

I am a 38% ITM 40% ROI player, and I HAVE had OTM streaks, up to 10, but this streak is different. I honestly think I'm losing 85% of my all ins, half where I'm ahead, half where I'm behind. The cards are falling in the way that desdia describes, where ur like 'not an 8' and there it is. I've lost AA as often as I've won it. And, no, I'm not slowplaying it. My favorite was Aces full. Lost to quad Tens.

I KNOW that no hand is guarenteed a win all in preflop. I know that AK is only about 66.8% against 72. But this streak is getting rediculous. I'm stopping for a few days (if i can) cuz im on eavy tilt.

Maybe I'll try to look at pockertracker before and after cashout to see if I can find anything statistically significant. I'm assuming I won't and I'm just being paranoid and angry. But man, if party's games weren't so soft...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes, the dreaded "cashout curse." I love that one...

eastbay

[joker1976]

I have logged 1300 allin hands that I should win 48% overall, but I only won 45%. Although the stats show that the deck was against me for a while, I still have ROI of 25%, so it doesn't really matter that much.

[naphand]

Do you want to learn and play better poker?

This post is nothing more than a vent at how you believe you should be getting better results than you are, this should not be happening to you, it seems like it must be rigged, why do the morons always catch their cards against me?

You have quite a few posts to your name, yet you cannot see just how cheesy and tedious this kind of post is? How many times does this subject have to be posted?

All experienced players have seen what you are seeing, many times over. It is nothing unusual. IT IS COMPLETELY NORMAL.

Some facts:

(1) If you are a good player, you will suck out far less than other players, because you are not taking marginal hands too far.

(2) Against bad players you will see a lot of suckouts, the worse they are the more you see. This is a good sign, it means you out-class your opposition.

(3) In games where people don't fold any draw, you will start to win closer to the mathematical probabilities. You have fewer opportunities to "outplay" your opponents. You need to concentrate on value-betting, extracting the maximum value when you are ahead. This is harder in NL due to the "coin-flop" situations you will find yourself in. The obvious solution is to avoid coin-flip situations as much as possible.

(4) Hands like AA/KK etc. are just one-pair, and can be beaten by a lot of hands, all of which will be inferior starting hands (certainly with AA, probably with KK).

(5) If you think your should be winning more than 50% ITM, you are living in fantasy land. This must be close to the theoretical maximum. You should be pleased. You may think you can win at a higher level, but if you do then you simply don't undertand the math of the game. I admit, it does sometimes seem like these games can be beaten at 75% or more (that is called a good run) but they really cannot. You might be able to beat some limit games at 75% (average is 66% for a good player) of sessions won, but NL is very different, due to the bust-out.

POST SOME HANDS.

Let's see the plays you are making. If you want to be sure that you played it right, or you have doubts, then POST THE HANDS. Of course, you have already stated you "would not play them any other way" which kind of suggest you are not prepared to accept anyone else's take on the situation. Is this why you never post hands or invite a strategy discussion?

Why bother which such pointless tripe as this, if you are serious about improving your game? CONTRIBUTE to this Forum by posting interesting or tricky hands that people can discuss and learn from - you included. Stop pretending you should be winning more because you deserve to, start working on your game and your strategy by using the pooled expertise of this forum. Or are you afraid to look stupid or be shown to be wrong?

You almost seem like someone who will go to the grave believing he is playing optimally. You aren't. No-one can play this way. But we can always learn. One of the first things you need to learn is that you are not playing optimally, and need to improve (which means POSTING SOME HANDS). You also need to accept what happens and stop brooding over it; so you busted out as a favourite, next SNG... If you do not learn to accept the fall of the cards, you will die of apoplexy long before you establish any reputation or get to play in WPT.

All new and developing players go through this. They establish a reasonable game, and can see the stupidity of their opponents. But this is not like athletics or baseball or chess; you run mostly blind, you get different starting positions every time, as do you opponents, you get different equipment and frequently obstacles appear that were not there before. This would be considered grossly unfair in any other "competitive" sport. In fact most would consider a "sport" like this to be comedy, not serious.

Poker is a game of subtleties amd long-term strategy, not short-term results and "maybes". The reason so many fish play poker is because (i) the rules are simple to learn and (ii) they can win making stupid plays, they can win by luck and quite regularly. Your edge is not as big as you think. World champions of poker can lose to bad luck, the difference is they recognise it as such and move on.

If you are still worried about your play after you make it, then you have more to learn. Worry about your play before you make it. Once the money is down, it is out of your hands, all you can learn to do is play well and be comfortable with your decisions. Let the cards fall and be done with it.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
I have logged 1300 allin hands that I should win 48% overall, but I only won 45%. Although the stats show that the deck was against me for a while, I still have ROI of 25%, so it doesn't really matter that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

the majority of your all-ins if you're only, on average, a 48% favorite going in. you're pretty much on point to win 45% of your all-ins and nothing more.

[Desdia72]

forums in the past. part of the reason that i don't LIKE posting hands in these forums or RGP is that some posters take criticism a step too far in the name of trying to be so HOLIER-THAN-THOU or SIDE-SPLITTING FUNNY. i come from the old school and believe if you don't have something constructive or good to contribute, don't bother at all. the first time i ever read a post from you was when you responded last week or so to a thread i started where you came in saying you were JOKING and did'nt mean anything by it. thing is, i don't JOKE or PLAY when it comes to my poker game or another player's. i take everybody serious whether their a $5 or a $200 player. if i don't have anything good or constructive to comment to another posters thread, I DON'T! PERIOD! it's stupid to me for somebody to read a thread that IN WHICH THEY ALREADY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
THE SUBJECT MATTER, then proceed to READ the material and divinely decide to add their 2 cents as if it's a religious doctrine or something.

simple put, if a player has a problem with the way i play a hand say, "don't play the hand like that next time, play it this way and see how it works". what pisses me off is when someone takes it past being cordial and genuinely concerned for helping another improve his play to trying to take cheap shots on the low in the name of getting a laugh or two here and there.

when you made the comment about me saying, "i'm pretty good at the $5 level", and took it to where, "that's not really saying much. you should'nt be proud of saying you're better than the majority of players at a level who are bad to begin with" was uncalled for. me saying i was pretty good at the $5 level was just that and ONLY that. when a more experienced player takes it upon himself to take cheap shots at a lesser experienced player in the name of joking or being sarcastic, i'm gonna let you know that i don't like being handled that way. i feel like if you don't want a "funny" statement being taken the wrong way, don't make it.

if you or any other player/poster has a problem with that, then don't come at me flaw. i have never came at any player out of the blue and tried to clown them no matter how whiny or outlandish their thread may have been. i come from an environment where you can get shot just for looking at somebody the wrong way so i'm not in the business of trying to disrespect someone no matter how overtly it may be. do i expect some sympathy for that? NO. only some fairness.

i tried to explain that to that guy Sponger many times over but he continues to want to push the envelope. for every clowning and act of disrespect he tries to shoot at me, he only makes himself look like a fool.

[woodguy]

You are right.
It is rigged.
You better stop playing.

Playing $5 + $0.50's and complaining about bad beats is like living in Arizona and complaining about the heat.

regards,
woodguy

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
You are right.
It is rigged.
You better stop playing.

Playing $5 + $0.50's and complaining about bad beats is like living in Arizona and complaining about the heat.

regards,
woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

read the original post again, i never said online poker was rigged. i could've gotten the same exact beats at $200 + $15
and would feel the same way. the title of the thread can really throw you for a loop if you let it. it's not the beats themselves, it's more about WHEN they occurred, at what frequency they occurred in such a short period, and the impact they had on placing and ROI.

[patrick dicaprio]

all three all ins i was in fourth. I saw this happen again two times last night to other players and one more time to myself, in three SnG's last nite. it is getting to be an epidemic. i also got knocked out in fourth with AK vs AQ with a Q on the river. The pocket pair loss was KK vs. 77 and my opponent got a runner runner straight!

Pat

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
all three all ins i was in fourth. I saw this happen again two times last night to other players and one more time to myself, in three SnG's last nite. it is getting to be an epidemic. i also got knocked out in fourth with AK vs AQ with a Q on the river. The pocket pair loss was KK vs. 77 and my opponent got a runner runner straight!

Pat

[/ QUOTE ]

see, that was the point of the thread. it was'nt to complain about anything, much less a 50% ITM rate. it more has to do with the number of beats and the time they occur.
when it gets to a point when you can say, "Watch This" and it happens, you start to think things. i just finished playing a SNG in which i got bounced out in 3rd. i was the shortstack in the BB with about 1500 (400 in BB) sitting with A Jo. the chipleader raises preflop and my choice was either to fold or call (essentially leaving me pot committed). i decided to push in this spot because the guy had been limping alot with marginal hands and happened to win them when the other callers did'nt have anything. he called the remaining of my all-in and showed Q 9o. i said, "I finally caught this guy with his hands in the cookie jar. Watch a Queen drop". Queen drops on the turn and i'm out. i'm not saying Pokerstars intentionally dropped the Queen, i'm only making a point of how these cards seem to drop at the most crucial time.

[mcj0014]

There is a lot of opposition to bad beat rants around here and I understand why. I'm going through one of those downward swings right now and at first I was incensed by the title of this thread. I thought "Just what I need to hear about right now. Another excuse for not accepting reality." But then I thought some more about it and realized that this is exactly what I need to hear. Not the part about the game being rigged, but rather about how bad the beats and resultant swings can actually be. You experienced folks treat this as common knowledge because you have experienced it. For those of us that are busy trying to climb the ladder we still have lots of doubts as to whether we are playing correctly, what to expect over the short term and what it means. As a matter of fact I still have doubts, admittedly small ones, that some of you really do as well as you say. I mean, hell, of course I do because I haven't personally experienced it and all I have to go on is what you post here on these forums. It is difficult to imagine how anyone could have taken the tournaments I've played in and do much better. But I'm about 90% sure that you could have and so I faithfully plod on despite my brain literally screaming at me that something is seriously wrong in pokerville. Play each hand right and eventually the advantages will add up. I know that. But without threads like this occasionally I wouldn't have the willpower to keep playing through the swings. It seems really, really bad and it helps me to hear a little more from people than just "hey, it's part of the game". This [censored] is the worst and I believe that how one handles it is at least as important as most other aspects of the game.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a lot of opposition to bad beat rants around here and I understand why. I'm going through one of those downward swings right now and at first I was incensed by the title of this thread. I thought "Just what I need to hear about right now. Another excuse for not accepting reality." But then I thought some more about it and realized that this is exactly what I need to hear. Not the part about the game being rigged, but rather about how bad the beats and resultant swings can actually be. You experienced folks treat this as common knowledge because you have experienced it. For those of us that are busy trying to climb the ladder we still have lots of doubts as to whether we are playing correctly, what to expect over the short term and what it means. As a matter of fact I still have doubts, admittedly small ones, that some of you really do as well as you say. I mean, hell, of course I do because I haven't personally experienced it and all I have to go on is what you post here on these forums. It is difficult to imagine how anyone could have taken the tournaments I've played in and do much better. But I'm about 90% sure that you could have and so I faithfully plod on despite my brain literally screaming at me that something is seriously wrong in pokerville. Play each hand right and eventually the advantages will add up. I know that. But without threads like this occasionally I wouldn't have the willpower to keep playing through the swings. It seems really, really bad and it helps me to hear a little more from people than just "hey, it's part of the game". This [censored] is the worst and I believe that how one handles it is at least as important as most other aspects of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

you kind of hit on the way i feel about the matter. that's one of the main reasons i don't post my hands up in these forums because some experienced posters up in these forums can be real callous and thoughtless with some of their comments when critiqueing the play of someone with less experience. you think 2+2 is bad, you should read some of the comments from folks on RGP.

you hit it right on the head when you talk about lower level players that's trying to climb the ladder and who still have doubts about playing their hands correctly. that comes to mind the 9 times i lost on the river to a weaker hand that either knocked me out or crippled my stack so bad that i expired shortly thereafter. when people start talking about the long run when you've just experienced enough river beats so close in succession that they start to upset the balance of your short term, it falls on deaf ears oftentimes.

[mcj0014]

Thanks, Desdia. You know I'm in math and we are really harsh to each other and students about doing things right. I see a bit of that in poker. People don't respond well to harsh criticism of their mental reasoning process. Of course, they do tend to remember the criticism.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Desdia. You know I'm in math and we are really harsh to each other and students about doing things right. I see a bit of that in poker. People don't respond well to harsh criticism of their mental reasoning process. Of course, they do tend to remember the criticism.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's my thing. i don't mind criticism but give it to me in a way that i can say, "Cool, i understand. i'll take that back to the drawing board". harsh criticism is just like bad beats; you remember them for a while. where i'm from harsh critcism of another man can lead to violence. you'll never catch me putting down another person's play. in the SNG yesterday where i had lost with the Ace's on the river to the pocket Queens, dudes at the table tried to clown me about my river beats. i never once got into that back-n-forth crap with the other players, i just sat back with the rest of my chips until i lost all-in with trip Jacks. even then i wished the naysayers at the table Good Luck. the guy who beat me with the Queens ended up going out in 5th (on tilt i might add after his huge chiplead), karma for running off at the mouth too much.

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't LIKE posting hands in these forums or RGP is that some posters take criticism a step too far in the name of trying to be so HOLIER-THAN-THOU

[/ QUOTE ]

All you appear to do Des, is rant about how unfair poker is to you, and ask pointless questions like "could a good $200 SNG player make $50 a day playing $5 SNGs". You don't post hands, apparently because you are afraid of getting "harsh criticism". Well you are getting from a lot of people anyway, so what difference does it make?

This forum is nothing like RGP in terms of the criticism. There are pile of psycho crack-heads on RGP whose main aim is to put others down. That has not been my experience in here. You need to be able to discriminate yourself, what constitutes constructive criticism, instead you hide behind a veil of useless posts that serve very little in terms of game development. You clearly are unable to handle criticism at any level - don't blame the forum, look to yourself and find improvement there.

Just exactly what do you mean by "holier than thou", it looks very much like an inferiority complex to me, everything about your posts and this line in particular suggests that is the case.

[ QUOTE ]
i don't JOKE or PLAY when it comes to my poker game or another player's

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you need to lighten up. Get out more. Stop taking yourself so seriously. People who act like you set a bad example to everyone else, and just look somewhat pathetic to the regulars.

[ QUOTE ]
divinely decide to add their 2 cents as if it's a religious doctrine or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

So this is how you rationalise your habit of ignoring advice from other people, particularly when you cannot find any argument to counter it? People are sermonising you!! It looks to me like you are beyond any help at all; you wont listen to others advice, you won't post for fear of criticism. In short, you wont learn. Yet you are happy to whine on on the forum about your bad beats, and how you should be earning much more than you are?

[ QUOTE ]
i feel like if you don't want a "funny" statement being taken the wrong way, don't make it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kettle...pot. The problem is entirely at your end, or have you not realised yet? I don't care how you take my posts, if you don't like humour and sarcasm then don't post at all. Hang on, isn't that the advice you are giving out? Take some of your own advice then....

[ QUOTE ]
i come from an environment where you can get shot just for looking at somebody the wrong way

[/ QUOTE ]

What a sad town you must live in. Maybe move out.

[ QUOTE ]
i tried to explain that to that guy Sponger many times over but he continues to want to push the envelope. for every clowning and act of disrespect he tries to shoot at me, he only makes himself look like a fool.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this right. You are trying to help sponger? So it is safe for you to dismiss people's criticism, because they are all fools? You are the only serious person here, who is trying to help others get over their "foolishness" right?

From the tone of your posts, and the appalling construction of your replies, I would guess you are not much older than 14 or 15. This is also consistent with your near total inability to accept the advice of others, however well-intended and your ridiculously pompous attitude with regard to posting hands. A little young to be playing poker online, no?

[Sponger15SB]

i feel the need to repeat myself, "just in case" desdia hasn't gotten it yet

[ QUOTE ]

Do you understand why your stupid rants make everyone laugh at you? You start up these threads and then argue with everyone who bothers to respond, brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
i feel the need to repeat myself, "just in case" desdia hasn't gotten it yet

[ QUOTE ]

Do you understand why your stupid rants make everyone laugh at you? You start up these threads and then argue with everyone who bothers to respond, brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

i see you is when you're trying to clown me. to have so much animosity flowing through your veins can't be healthy at all. lay off those hot dogs at the fairgrounds, bro. better yet, i think you must be in need of some good sex from some hot lolita around the way. i'm starting to think you're getting a hard-on and a jonesing in your coconuts from all this hounding me. get a life, bruh. this is starting to get real gay and i don't swing that way.

[Jdanz]

i don't like the sound of his posts. but come on man, you can't possibly think this is more than a bad beat post.

to quote those wiser then me cards happen. you play enough you'll see everything

-JDanz

[Jdanz]

i don't know you, but i think i hate you.

this is by far the most offensive post i've ever written, and i regret it as i type it, but god damn i just had to get it off my chest.

Do you think this post is fun? cause if it's fun that fine post it, i'm not that serious.

Do you think it is in ANY form constructive, if you do fine post it we're here to learn.

If it is neither fun, nor constructive, and you know that all you're doing is taking up board space, please, just don't post it.

-JDanz

[Sponger15SB]

i know i've posted it before, but this is the source of my bickering with desdia, in case anybody cares.

yes, it is posted in a forum called "vent, rant, and rave" but this is taking it to a new level.

sorry if i seem "gay", haha.

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/~internet/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3291&highlight=snd+heartbreak

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know you, but i think i hate you.

this is by far the most offensive post i've ever written, and i regret it as i type it, but god damn i just had to get it off my chest.

Do you think this post is fun? cause if it's fun that fine post it, i'm not that serious.

Do you think it is in ANY form constructive, if you do fine post it we're here to learn.

If it is neither fun, nor constructive, and you know that all you're doing is taking up board space, please, just don't post it.

-JDanz

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm on to bigger and better things.

[Sponger15SB]

more bad beat stories???

yay!

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
you're a troll, always have been always will be, you're worthless to this forum and matthews, and thank god for the most part you've stopped posting there because if i had to hear another lame, whiny rant about how you went all in with the best of it and lost, i'd have to shoot myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sponger, this line will go down in history. I've read it several times and I still can't help laughing.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you're a troll, always have been always will be, you're worthless to this forum and matthews, and thank god for the most part you've stopped posting there because if i had to hear another lame, whiny rant about how you went all in with the best of it and lost, i'd have to shoot myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sponger, this line will go down in history. I've read it several times and I still can't help laughing.

[/ QUOTE ]

DRAMA QUEENS who wanna keep things going like a couple of gay blades. it's cool though. everytime you put gasoline in Sponger's unleaded tank, he's gonna keep riding until there's only fumes left. that only proves to me how lame you are to keep focusing on BS instead of letting the thread die. and you talk about me being a teeny. wrapped up in all your well-meaning, chastising words preaching to delve within ones self and grow up is just a plain, nagging ole' bittie trying to get her shine on. for a minute, you had me going, thinking you were all about serious poker talk. i see that's not the case. if no one is interested in this thread, word to the wise, let it go. i can take it like a man. i'll live with the disappointment and the contempt, bro /images/graemlins/grin.gif. it ain't the end of the world. be easy.

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
for example, i will limp with an A 2 -type hand in the right spot like an unraised pot preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Des, why are you posting lines like this? You complain that others are "sermonising" you, yet you deal out such basic nonsense as if no one else knew anything about poker. It's a standard play to limp into NL games with hands that can flop big. The same goes for small PP. You post like you are the only player on this forum who understands this.

[ QUOTE ]
and cut my losses short when the flop hits /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif with no Ace, or flush possibilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see a flop that comes with none of your 2-suited that still has flush possibilities...

Again WHY are you posting this. Do you seriously think that such obvious poker as folding when you have no pair, and no draws is a secret that you alone have discovered? ALMOST EVERYONE who uses this forum understands this, it is old news and extremely tedious for you to harp on about it, particularly in a thread that comprehensively fails to deal with any strategy issues. It looks like all you are trying to do is show people how knowledgeable you are, but anyone with any level of understanding knows all the of the things you mention here, there is not one scrap of advanced strategy in your posts. I would like to think you could contribute to a discussion on this forum that was RELEVANT to poker play, but all you seem to want to do is whine about bad beats, then give lectures of basic poker strategy and how clever you are.


[ QUOTE ]
that's SITUATIONAL and smart poker, regardless of whether it's a $5 SNG or a $200 one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it? I would say is was a basic common-sense strategy, not particularly smart. How come you are able to extrapolate up to $200 SNGs now? You only have $5 SNG experience (in any quantity).


[ QUOTE ]
i've limped with 54o recently as a shortstack, doubled up off the chipleader with a full 5s over 4s, and made it into the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do we get to know what the chipleader had? what was the ratio of chips was between your stacks? what flopped? what street did you pull your hand on? And this is the same guy who says people get lucky against him all the time? Looks like a boast to me, and a pointless and non-typical one at that, which contradicts your own line of always suffering bad beats when you had the best of it.

This thread contains two things from you - complaints about how unlucky you are complete with examples of hands you lost, and "demostrations" of how great you are at the game. Unfortunately, poker is not always as simple as this, and most of the skill comes in playing difficult hands well, and reading the play. I think we are yet to see any examples of this in your posts, which is a shame, as you must have plenty of experience you can share with the forum. Your reasons for not doing so are weak, and all you appear to want to use the forum for is some kind of salve to your ego when things go bad for you.

POST SOME HANDS.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for example, i will limp with an A 2 -type hand in the right spot like an unraised pot preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Des, why are you posting lines like this? You complain that others are "sermonising" you, yet you deal out such basic nonsense as if no one else knew anything about poker. It's a standard play to limp into NL games with hands that can flop big. The same goes for small PP. You post like you are the only player on this forum who understands this.

[ QUOTE ]
and cut my losses short when the flop hits /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif with no Ace, or flush possibilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see a flop that comes with none of your 2-suited that still has flush possibilities...

Again WHY are you posting this. Do you seriously think that such obvious poker as folding when you have no pair, and no draws is a secret that you alone have discovered? ALMOST EVERYONE who uses this forum understands this, it is old news and extremely tedious for you to harp on about it, particularly in a thread that comprehensively fails to deal with any strategy issues. It looks like all you are trying to do is show people how knowledgeable you are, but anyone with any level of understanding knows all the of the things you mention here, there is not one scrap of advanced strategy in your posts. I would like to think you could contribute to a discussion on this forum that was RELEVANT to poker play, but all you seem to want to do is whine about bad beats, then give lectures of basic poker strategy and how clever you are.


[ QUOTE ]
that's SITUATIONAL and smart poker, regardless of whether it's a $5 SNG or a $200 one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it? I would say is was a basic common-sense strategy, not particularly smart. How come you are able to extrapolate up to $200 SNGs now? You only have $5 SNG experience (in any quantity).


[ QUOTE ]
i've limped with 54o recently as a shortstack, doubled up off the chipleader with a full 5s over 4s, and made it into the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do we get to know what the chipleader had? what was the ratio of chips was between your stacks? what flopped? what street did you pull your hand on? And this is the same guy who says people get lucky against him all the time? Looks like a boast to me, and a pointless and non-typical one at that, which contradicts your own line of always suffering bad beats when you had the best of it.

This thread contains two things from you - complaints about how unlucky you are complete with examples of hands you lost, and "demostrations" of how great you are at the game. Unfortunately, poker is not always as simple as this, and most of the skill comes in playing difficult hands well, and reading the play. I think we are yet to see any examples of this in your posts, which is a shame, as you must have plenty of experience you can share with the forum. Your reasons for not doing so are weak, and all you appear to want to use the forum for is some kind of salve to your ego when things go bad for you.

POST SOME HANDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

you showed me your true side a long time ago so what do you care? are you really concerned about whether i'm weak-tight or experienced enough to share my play? gitdafugoutta here, bruh. your only purpose is to shine on me every chance you get. your whole rebuttal is dripping with nothing but venom.
so now, it's a "demonstration" of how great i am at the game because i said i doubled up off one hand (5 4o). you trying to milk the cow for all it's worth, are'nt you? and i'm the one with the problem? LMFAO /images/graemlins/grin.gif. give the thread the death it deserves.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
more bad beat stories???

yay!

[/ QUOTE ]

but if you like, you and your butch naphand can use this as your personal forum to exchange recipes on how next to show what a couple of debutantes you are.

[naphand]

The line is funny, IMO. If you don't think so then don't read it. I am entitled to laugh when I see fit, humour is not subject to licence or censorship from the likes of you. The joke may be on you Des, but that does not prevent the joke from being funny.

[ QUOTE ]
DRAMA QUEENS who wanna keep things going like a couple of gay blades.

[/ QUOTE ]

"He who resorts to insults has already lost the argument"
Confucius.

[ QUOTE ]
just a plain, nagging ole' bittie trying to get her shine on

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

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..only proves to me how lame you are to keep focusing on BS instead of letting the thread die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could there be a better example of hypocrisy? I never said anything about letting the thread die. My one mantra I constantly repeat is POST SOME HANDS.

If you want the thread to die Des, stop replying....simple really.

[ QUOTE ]
for a minute, you had me going

[/ QUOTE ]

I somehow doubt the sincerity of this line. We have seen precious little evidence that you can be convinced by logical argument or indeed any level rationality that disagrees with your viewpoint. It would be nice to be proved wrong, but that is down to you, and whether you are big enough to swallow crticism and engage in constructive, developmental debate. No compromise is such a tired Bushism, and achieves nothing except polarity of opinion, which leads to arrogance and even violence. You should have learned that by now after nearly 4 years...

[ QUOTE ]
word to the wise, let it go. i can take it like a man

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you so sure? So far all you have demonstrated is a refusal to accept anyone else's take and complete inability to "let it go". Wise words should be matched by wise deeds.

[BrettK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you're a troll, always have been always will be, you're worthless to this forum and matthews, and thank god for the most part you've stopped posting there because if i had to hear another lame, whiny rant about how you went all in with the best of it and lost, i'd have to shoot myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sponger, this line will go down in history. I've read it several times and I still can't help laughing.

[/ QUOTE ]

DRAMA QUEENS who wanna keep things going like a couple of gay blades. it's cool though. everytime you put gasoline in Sponger's unleaded tank, he's gonna keep riding until there's only fumes left. that only proves to me how lame you are to keep focusing on BS instead of letting the thread die. and you talk about me being a teeny. wrapped up in all your well-meaning, chastising words preaching to delve within ones self and grow up is just a plain, nagging ole' bittie trying to get her shine on. for a minute, you had me going, thinking you were all about serious poker talk. i see that's not the case. if no one is interested in this thread, word to the wise, let it go. i can take it like a man. i'll live with the disappointment and the contempt, bro /images/graemlins/grin.gif. it ain't the end of the world. be easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Desdia, you are to be commended for 'letting the thread die' with this latest marvelous post. Wait..

I think most of these people are tired of hearing you moan and complain all day, having to sift through twenty-five-sentence paragraphs full of nonsensical crap. You seem to have a very roundabout(sp?) way of saying, "I'm the greatest poker player in the world, so if I'm not winning, there must be something wrong with either online poker or the game in general. Please console and reassure me as I slither around in self pity." Grow up.

Brett

[naphand]

I guess Des is just Redneck from Alabama. At least that could be be reasonably concluded from this (and other) homophobic one-liners, that and the reference to "being shot for looking at someone the wrong way".

POST SOME HANDS Des, if you are serious about becoming a better poker player.

[naphand]

Spend some time in the psychology forum. There are some very useful threads on dealing with mini-tilts like the on you are describing. If you have reached the point where your are afraid of bad cards falling, then you are also in danger if making the wrong plays. Good poker requires fearlessness, which is a lot harder to develop than most realise. You may think you can carry on playing soundly, but you have symptoms of semi-tilt and need a check-up or break (a little R&R is always good). It's important to stay focussed on the play, and not the fall of cards after you make your play.

I doubt there is a poker player who has played more than 6 months poker online, who has not had experiences at least the equal of those you describe. I certainly have, but there really is no point in hashing them up on this forum. Sh*t happens. Move on.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you're a troll, always have been always will be, you're worthless to this forum and matthews, and thank god for the most part you've stopped posting there because if i had to hear another lame, whiny rant about how you went all in with the best of it and lost, i'd have to shoot myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sponger, this line will go down in history. I've read it several times and I still can't help laughing.

[/ QUOTE ]

DRAMA QUEENS who wanna keep things going like a couple of gay blades. it's cool though. everytime you put gasoline in Sponger's unleaded tank, he's gonna keep riding until there's only fumes left. that only proves to me how lame you are to keep focusing on BS instead of letting the thread die. and you talk about me being a teeny. wrapped up in all your well-meaning, chastising words preaching to delve within ones self and grow up is just a plain, nagging ole' bittie trying to get her shine on. for a minute, you had me going, thinking you were all about serious poker talk. i see that's not the case. if no one is interested in this thread, word to the wise, let it go. i can take it like a man. i'll live with the disappointment and the contempt, bro /images/graemlins/grin.gif. it ain't the end of the world. be easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Desdia, you are to be commended for 'letting the thread die' with this latest marvelous post. Wait..

I think most of these people are tired of hearing you moan and complain all day, having to sift through twenty-five-sentence paragraphs full of nonsensical crap. You seem to have a very roundabout(sp?) way of saying, "I'm the greatest poker player in the world, so if I'm not winning, there must be something wrong with either online poker or the game in general. Please console and reassure me as I slither around in self pity." Grow up.

Brett

[/ QUOTE ]

if i were the greatest poker player alive, i surely would'nt be up in these forums. if you took from my posts that that's what i thought about myself as a player, God Bless You.

[naphand]

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you showed me your true side a long time ago so what do you care?

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A long time ago? I think my current spell here (and my reply to one of your posts) started less than a week ago!!

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are you really concerned about whether i'm weak-tight or experienced enough to share my play?

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You are missing the point Des. It's not about me...

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your whole rebuttal is dripping with nothing but venom.

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The poison is in your mind. I am entirely unconcerned if you should choose to continue down the utterly barren path your current posts indicate you are on.

I think that 7 months of SNG experience is more than enough to share with this forum, although your self-confessed "disappointment" with your profits to-date appears to be a very significant psychological obstacle that you really need to get over otherwise you most certainly will join the ranks of the failed and bitter poker has-beens, with an ulcer to boot.


[ QUOTE ]
so now, it's a "demonstration" of how great i am at the game because i said i doubled up off one hand (5 4o).

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I think you chose a very poor example, and one that was entirely inconsistent with your stated premise that you were suffering an unjust/unfair number of suckouts. I would much rather have seen a hand where you made correct raises and took a big pot, or a hand where you made a very good laydown with a strong hand. You talk of these, but have so far shown us nothing.


Read the post from BrettK and many others who are tired of your posts. I am merely suggesting you alter tack, and POST SOME HANDS so that something constructive can come from your presence here. You keep finding reasons not to....

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you're a troll, always have been always will be, you're worthless to this forum and matthews, and thank god for the most part you've stopped posting there because if i had to hear another lame, whiny rant about how you went all in with the best of it and lost, i'd have to shoot myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sponger, this line will go down in history. I've read it several times and I still can't help laughing.

[/ QUOTE ]

troll, it's funny and it's humour not subject to licence or censorship by me but when i speak the truth of you two being a couple of Queer-Eyed Tinkerbells with a jonesing in your cojones for lil' 'ole me, then it's wait:

"He who resorts to insults has already lost the argument"
Confucius

[naphand]

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i come from the old school and believe if you don't have something constructive or good to contribute, don't bother at all.

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This is all we are asking from you, Des.

[Desdia72]

necessary to post what the other player had, it was more a point of trying to make that, instead of sitting around waiting from premium hands...i at least was willing to limp with SOMETHING, instead of letting my blinds get eaten away. the chipleader made a faux paux by slow playing his pocket Kings. instead of raising preflop, he limped in behind another player (if you can believe that), i limped, and the flop came down 5 5 4 for the nut fullhouse. he never caught on to my flop betting or the all-in on the turn when an x-card hit. it was'nt anything genius or great about the play. i benefited from the screw up of another player, yet it still would have never happened if i did'nt put my chips out there to begin with.

[znup]

Bump.

Just making sure we got all out of this one that we could.

[naphand]

Post the hand, let's see the action and include your thinking at the time. Leave it to others to decide if limping with KK was a mistake (it surely was with all those limpers).

Des, no-one can sit around and wait for premium hands when short-stacked. You are forced to make marginal plays and hope to see a flop cheap (or steal some blinds). Standard play.

But your play is much more interesting now we at least have a outline of what happened. You could post this hand with a subject line "Standard or too loose with a small stack?", and I doubt very much you will get any "harsh" criticism for your play, certainly not from me. It serves not only as a good example of taking a borderline chance and getting paid-off, but also as an example of why slow-playing premium hands against multiple limpers is really bad poker (of course it always looks worse when it fails).

I'm sure others would like to see the hand.

[Sponger15SB]

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Bump.

Just making sure we got all out of this one that we could.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never!

[viennagreen]

naphand--- this is a perfect post... though Des seems only to see what he wants to, and it'll most likely be lost on him.

[UncleDuke]

I'm sure you know 22 sngs is not a large enough sample to get excited about, but even so, 50% itm is good, not something to consider a cause for concern. I'm pretty sure most people agree that 75% itm is not sustainable, even for top players. There is just too much randomness in these things for that. It's just the nature of them since the blinds eventually get so big that you have to take some substantial risks.

I certainly sympathize with feeling frustrated by the suckouts of your good hands, but it happens to all of us. If you play several sngs per day, you almost certainly have a few serious bad beats put on you, and you probably even put a couple on other people even if you're very picky with your hand selection. Even if you have 4-1 the best of it or something like that, 1 in 5 is going to happen enough so that you see it a few times in a day if you play much. On your bad days, it will happen more than a few times.