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View Full Version : J10s on the bubble-Comments please


mcj0014
07-30-2004, 04:32 PM
Ouch! What do ya think? Fold on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">Button (t2058)</font>
<font color="C00000">Hero (t1500)</font>
BB (t1055)
UTG (t3387)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t300, Hero completes, BB checks,

Flop: (t900) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets t300</font>, Hero calls t300, BB folds.

Turn: (t1500) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t600</font>, Button calls t600.

River: (t2700) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t300 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t300.

Final Pot: t3300
<font color="green">Main Pot: t3300 (t3300), between Button and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Button (t3300).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Js Ts (two pair, jacks and tens).
Button shows Jc Ac (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: Button wins t3300. </font>

Huskiez
07-30-2004, 04:37 PM
My gut is telling me to check raise all in on this flop. I definitely am willing to put my chips in on a flush draw plus pair, especially if there's a chance he'll fold to your all in. I would either check raise all in or bet all in (depending on whether you think button will bet without a hand).

That he had you beat simply sucks.

Edit: Actually, noting down stack sizes, I would rather bet all in than check raise all in. This makes it more likely someone can lay down a crappy Ace.

Cleveland Guy
07-30-2004, 04:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ouch! What do ya think? Fold on the flop?


[/ QUOTE ]

You think you have 14 outs 2 times. Your about even money at this point. Then you hit one of your 14 "outs".

Just a tough break cause he has a better 2 pair. I'm not sure how I coud avoid this myself.

NegativeEV
07-30-2004, 04:44 PM
This is extremely player dependent and the decision will be based on read of the Button player who has called the BB. If a limp in this spot by the Button means strength, I check fold on the flop here as I'm not taking a 2:1 dog with my tourney on the line. If the limp preflop does not mean strength or I have no read, I push on the flop with this hand. The pot is large in comparison to your stack and the blinds are substantial, this is time for all-in or fold, not call or bet less than allin.

Cleveland Guy
07-30-2004, 04:48 PM
A agree with the all in fold decision.

I'm confused as to the how are you a 2.1 dog? Is it just cause we know after the fact that the other player had 2 pair?

I think it would be fair to assume he had the A, but almost impossible to suspect the J. If the other player is holding Ax (even AK) isn't it close to 50/50 at this point?

Jman28
07-30-2004, 05:46 PM
I find it hard to believe that he limped here with AJ. But, he did, and then got the perfect flop.

I push right away on the flop with the flush draw and pair. Then, later, I'd cry myself to sleep holding a teddy bear.

TheDrone
07-30-2004, 05:52 PM
There's no folding this flop to a 1/3 pot bet. Most of the time I check-raise allin here, the remainder of the time I just push.

gergery
07-30-2004, 07:11 PM
This is a bad beat story.

I play flop the same way you did. I figure the button would raise with an Ace so he must not have one. You are very likely ahead then, and your opponent is on 2-6 outs, so giving a free card is not so bad, especially since you have so many outs to improve yourself. Then you can bet or checkraise the turn. And if he does have an ace, this type of player will not fold it and I don’t want to go into a coin flip with my 14 outs.

On turn, I push all-in, as the pot is big enough to take down and I don’t want to give Ax a cheap chance to make two pair by board pairing or him hitting small card and I don’t want KJ,QJ getting cheap cards. And you have upto 13 outs if called (11 in this case)

Bad luck,
-- Greg