The Official Joe Awada Thread

[Ess Why Kay]

This guy deserves his own thread. Awesome player. Totally outplayed that douche bag Fishman, but the cards didn't come his way. That beat Scott threw on him was terrible. I felt bad for Awada, but that's the way the cards go.

He also took down that Stud tourney and got his bracelet after all. First place and a 2nd. Not bad. Anybody know if he made other final tables or finished in the money on some other events this year?

[jjnidguy]

www.thepokerforum.com (http://www.thepokerforum.com) has details about the placings in all events

[Oski]

Very impressed by the man. Very classy. He's good for poker.

I really felt for him when he had that beat put on him, especially when Fischman was woopin it up. He certainly deserved better.

[RPatterson]

That guy was sweet, a circus performer turned pro-card player?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
That beat Scott threw on him was terrible. I felt bad for Awada, but that's the way the cards go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you're not talking about the AK vs. 55 hand because that's a toss-up pre-flop.

When Fishman actually outdrew Awada on the river, Fishman had nine outs. The draw Fishman had on the river was no different than a flush draw.

I guess you've never hit a nine outer on the river?

[boedeker]

if i remember right awada called the on the flop. thus not a coinflip. now not a horrific beat after the board paird on the turn, still it was a suck out.

[drewjustdrew]

It was hard to tell how many chips were in the pot before the flop and after, by my recollection. May have been a ABC play by both players. I think there was a raise and reraise before the flop, so there may have been only a fraction of the pot left in each other's stacks to bet and call with.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you're not talking about the AK vs. 55 hand because that's a toss-up pre-flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

They moved in after the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
When Fishman actually outdrew Awada on the river, Fishman had nine outs. The draw Fishman had on the river was no different than a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

No he had six outs on the flop, then picked up three more on the turn.

pokenum -h ac ks - 5d 5s -- 7s 9c 3d
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7s 9c 3d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Ac 246 24.85 744 75.15 0 0.00 0.248
5s 5d 744 75.15 246 24.85 0 0.00 0.752

Not a huge suckout, but not a flush draw either.

fsuplayer

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
No he had six outs on the flop, then picked up three more on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes nine outs on the river, exactly the same as a flush draw.

[Jason Strasser]

Repeat: he didn't get the money in on the turn. The money went in when he was 75/25, that's when you establish (IMO) the degree of the beat. This is worse than a flush draw because the money got in when he was further behind then a flush draw.

Using your logic, if AA went all in, and someone with 97 called when the flop came 984. It wouldn't be that bad of a beat if the turn came 6, and then the guy with 97 hit a OESD on the river.

-Jason

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Repeat: he didn't get the money in on the turn. The money went in when he was 75/25, that's when you establish (IMO) the degree of the beat. This is worse than a flush draw because the money got in when he was further behind then a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you.

[Dynasty]

I know when the money went in. I knew it when I made my first post in this thread.

It's still not a terrible beat.

If you're going to get caught up in the minutia of the whole hand, then Fishman's draw was the equivalent of an open-ended straight draw. Does that make you feel better?

[turnipmonster]

it's 75/25. AA vs KK preflop is 83/17, I assume that's not a terrible beat either?

did he raise allin as a dog or call allin? calling is far worse than raising.

--turnipmonster

[Dynasty]

Fishman bet all-in on a ragged flop and Awada called with third pair.

This terrible beat stuff is just results oriented analysis. If Fishman happened to have a pocket pair (non set bigger than 55) this time rather than AK, people would all be saying what a terrible fishy call Awada made with third pair.

[ QUOTE ]
AA vs KK preflop is 83/17, I assume that's not a terrible beat either?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. I expect it to happen about 1 time out of 6.

When I roll a die and a 4 comes up, I don't think it's an extraordinary event.

[turnipmonster]

it's just whatever your definition of a terrible beat is, then, not a big deal. there's no gold standard that says 5 to 1 is a beat, and by your definitions there are very, very few extraordinary events in hold 'em, and absolutely none preflop.

--turnipmonster

[fsuplayer]

Its not a bad beat in that it was 75/25, but like in most "bad beats", the situation and stakes made it much worse.

If I made a great read on a guy on the deciding hand of a WSOP event and called with that hand and still lost, then I would call it a bad beat.

Just as if I trapped somebody pf with their 88 vs my AA for all the chips and then lost the WSOP when the 8 spiked, thats a bad beat.

Yes it happens all the time, but what I am saying is that in THIS situation, he made a great call and got unlikely. So its a bad beat. Not runner runner straight flush to beat flopped quads (which I saw in a casino 3 months ago), but still a bad beat.

fsuplayer

[AtlBrvs4Life]

The fact that Awada was such a classy player and Fischman was such an [censored] makes it even worse. If Awada had done this same thing to Fischman, I would have been cheering.

Edit: Regardless of the outcome, I think Awada outplayed Fischman the whole way.

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]


Nope. I expect it to happen about 1 time out of 6.

When I roll a die and a 4 comes up, I don't think it's an extraordinary event.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, but I wouldn't want to have even money on it, either.

[AJo Go All In]

i'm beginning to think that you are just arguing for the sake of being a contrarian little [censored]. i mean, if that's the case, don't get me wrong, i appreciate it. just wondering.

results oriented analysis? what are you talking about? you can't just say "if he were calling with the worst hand, then you'd think it's bad, but just because he was calling with the best hand, you think it's good." that is the kind of analysis that makes no sense. there are moving parts here. you can't just keep everything static and change fischman's hand, and now all of a sudden he made the wrong play. if fischman had pocket 8s, now it's a completely different hand.

as to your comments about bad beats, i mean, whatever, nothing in poker is even close to a bad beat, compared to the odds of being struck by lightning, eaten by a shark, etc. i think everyone knows that, but thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[scotnt73]

he earned my respect for his play as well as his class

[Nottom]

I have to jump on Dynasty's side of the arguement here if only becasue IMO, in order for it to be a bad beat it has to be either a really nasty suckout (runner-runner, 1-outer variety) or be a terrible play on the part of the person who wins the hand.

In this case, Fischman had AK and pushed on the raggedy flop. I don't think anyone can claim this is a terrible play, if he Awada lays down the 55 then it would be a great play.

Besides how many of you called Moneymaker a fool for calling Boyd's all-in with 33 in last years series.

[AJo Go All In]

[ QUOTE ]
in order for it to be a bad beat it has to be either a really nasty suckout (runner-runner, 1-outer variety) or be a terrible play on the part of the person who wins the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

player A goes all-in with pocket kings. player B calls with pocket aces. a king hits the flop, and player A busts player B. you are of the opinion that this was not a bad beat?

[Nottom]

Its an unfortunate beat, but something you expect to happen a agood portion of the time. If my AA was beat by A9oor something, then I would consider it a truely bad beat.

[Ess Why Kay]

[ QUOTE ]
in order for it to be a bad beat it has to be either a really nasty suckout (runner-runner, 1-outer variety)

[/ QUOTE ]

It was runner runner, dude. The board turned a pair, and rivered a second pair which was higher than Awadas. Thus, giving him 5 high and Douchebag A high.

I'm not saying Fischman did much wrong, because he was obviously just trying to take the pot, but I still call it a bad beat when he catches runner runner.

Other factors that make me call it a bad beat:

* Fischman having absolutely 0 class
* Awada outplaying him and getting screwed
* Awada having class and being a great player

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in order for it to be a bad beat it has to be either a really nasty suckout (runner-runner, 1-outer variety)

[/ QUOTE ]

It was runner runner, dude.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is results oriented analysis. The actual hand was indeed won by a runner-runner double pairing of the board. But, Fishman had six outs in the deck which would immediately have given him a winning hand on the turn.

I thnk the point is that a really bad beat is one in which the only possiblity of losing is by two good running cards coming. That's a definition I'm fairly happy with.

[Ess Why Kay]

I don't understand how it isn't considered a bad beat because he went in with 6 outs.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how it isn't considered a bad beat because he went in with 6 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because those kind of drawouts happen all the time. If you sit at a poker table for an hour, you'll witness several drawouts like this. It's a regular part of the game. It was a drawout, not a bad beat.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
a really bad beat

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the stupidest semantical argument I've ever seen! And now you're introducing REALLY bad beat as opposed to just a bad beat. Look imo if you make a call with the best of it and you lose, its a bad beat even if you're only a 51/49 favorite.

But thats just my opinion...who really cares what the definition of 'bad beat' is?

Bottom line: A well liked, classy player was a 3-1 favorite in one hand to beat a not so well liked player and he lost. Then he lost another hand where he was also a favorite. Put those two together, and we feel bad for him and mad that it turned out that way. Can we all just agree to that at least?

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not a bad beat in that it was 75/25, but like in most "bad beats", the situation and stakes made it much worse.

If I made a great read on a guy on the deciding hand of a WSOP event and called with that hand and still lost, then I would call it a bad beat.

Just as if I trapped somebody pf with their 88 vs my AA for all the chips and then lost the WSOP when the 8 spiked, thats a bad beat.

Yes it happens all the time, but what I am saying is that in THIS situation, he made a great call and got unlikely. So its a bad beat. Not runner runner straight flush to beat flopped quads (which I saw in a casino 3 months ago), but still a bad beat.

fsuplayer

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY IT WAS A BAD BEAT!

[GuyOnTilt]

I'm completely with Dynasty on this one. Someone hitting a 9-outer isn't a bad beat by any stretch. It happens ALL THE TIME. AK beating an unimproved 55 isn't exactly unusual either. I don't blame ESPN for trying to make a 9-outer all dramatic and devstating, but I wouldn't have expected any experienced poker player to actually buy it.

GoT

[Ess Why Kay]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm completely with Dynasty on this one. Someone hitting a 9-outer isn't a bad beat by any stretch. It happens ALL THE TIME. AK beating an unimproved 55 isn't exactly unusual either. I don't blame ESPN for trying to make a 9-outer all dramatic and devstating, but I wouldn't have expected any experienced poker player to actually buy it.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't see how it is considered a 9 outer when he didn't hit any of the 9 outs to give him the win. On the turn when nobody had any help and it was still AK Vs. 55 with Awada having the lead, Fishman only had 6 outs to win the hand. An Ace or a King. On the turn he got 3 more outs and then it was a 9 outer. Him getting a miracle helper on the turn is bad luck and getting the card to double pair the board is even worse luck. If that isn't a bad beat I don't know what is.

If an Ace would've came on the turn I would not call this a bad beat. It's the fact he caught runner runner terminate Awadas pocket fives. His hand didn't receive any help, the board just gave him a miracle by pairing up twice and he must've sold his soul to the devil for that to happen.

[curtains]

Im sorry but I have to say I'm not a big fan of Joe Awada. Whenever he wins a hand he kind of just sits there as though nothing is happening, and never celebrates or runs around or anything.
He should at least show some class and PRETEND to be excited when he wins.

[AJo Go All In]

is this a joke?

[Sponger15SB]

bump because i'm watching the stud tourney again and this guy is really classy. i'm stoked he won.

[-Syk-]

[ QUOTE ]

Im sorry but I have to say I'm not a big fan of Joe Awada. Whenever he wins a hand he kind of just sits there as though nothing is happening, and never celebrates or runs around or anything.
He should at least show some class and PRETEND to be excited when he wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

..are you messing around or serious?

[curtains]

Im joking don't worry. If Greenstein can get flamed for giving thousands of dollars to children, I figure someone should find a reason to flame Awada or anyone else for that matter.