logging into Neteller at work

[Thythe]

I have zero work to do today but am forced to sit around all day doing nothing. Do you think it'd be asking for trouble logging into Neteller when I'm on a company network? Would that make it easy for someone to access my password/secure ID etc? I really have no idea about this stuff, but if I could log into Neteller I could work on some record keeping I've been meaning to catch up on.

[moondogg]

Neteller's new site is has 128-bit SSL encryption using a Verisign certificate. In other words, it is not really feasible for somebody to "sniff" the connection to see what information is being sent back and forth. The communication between your computer and Neteller is very secure.

The other risk is the storage of information on your machine. The website stores a plain-text version of your user ID in a cookie, so that it can be pre-populated the next time you log in. There should be no danger to this in itself: without the secure ID or password, the user ID is pretty useless. If you want to be extra safe, delete your cookies when you're done: Tools|Options... (unless you're using Netscape, in which case you should not be trusted with a computer anyway /images/graemlins/smile.gif). I just searched my machine, I have not been able any evidence of the secure ID or password. Also, it seems that the Neteller site disables intellisense and password recall. In other words, there should be no copy of your secure ID or password present on your machine after you close your browser. Again, clear your cookies (and cached files) just to be safe.

[Thythe]

Awesome, thanks for the reply. I would of course never run Netscape /images/graemlins/smile.gif Looks like I'll be doing some Neteller work this afternoon.

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
(unless you're using Netscape, in which case you should not be trusted with a computer anyway /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, I often have this thought about IE users /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Firefox anyone? (http://mozilla.org)

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
Neteller's new site is has 128-bit SSL encryption using a Verisign certificate. In other words, it is not really feasible for somebody to "sniff" the connection to see what information is being sent back and forth. The communication between your computer and Neteller is very secure.

The other risk is the storage of information on your machine. The website stores a plain-text version of your user ID in a cookie, so that it can be pre-populated the next time you log in. There should be no danger to this in itself: without the secure ID or password, the user ID is pretty useless. If you want to be extra safe, delete your cookies when you're done: Tools|Options... (unless you're using Netscape, in which case you should not be trusted with a computer anyway /images/graemlins/smile.gif). I just searched my machine, I have not been able any evidence of the secure ID or password. Also, it seems that the Neteller site disables intellisense and password recall. In other words, there should be no copy of your secure ID or password present on your machine after you close your browser. Again, clear your cookies (and cached files) just to be safe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been using Netscape as of late. Can you elaborate on why I should not be doing so?

-- Thanks, Homer

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been using Netscape as of late. Can you elaborate on why I should not be doing so?

-- Thanks, Homer

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. Obviously someone was going to call me on it, but I just couldn't help myself. I don't want to start a whole flame war, so this is my single response to the question, and then I am done with it. Feel free to flame away, I won't get offended, I'm just not going to respond.

First, let me preface this with one big-ass <IMHO>:
For the standpoint of a web developer, Netscape is brutal. There is so much that you can do in IE that you either cannot do, or are just painful to do, in Netscape. Some examples are XML data islands, client-side XSL translations, and disabling controls. Hell, you cannot even have a <FORM> tag which contains <SPAN> tags which in turn contain <INPUT> tags. Note: All of these issues describe the 4.X version of Netscape. I cannot speak to the later versions, as both of the development companies I have worked with in the last few years (since Netscape 6.X has been released) have stopped supporting Netscape.

The reason we have stopped supporting it was purely business-oriented. We have not refused to support it, but out clients have chosen not to pay us to support it. In most cases, I client would say "of course we want to support Netscape"; when shown the impact to the project plan and the associated price tag, almost every single client (with one exception) chose to drop support of Netscape.

Introducing Netscape support would usually double the client-side web development effort (obviously server-side and data estimates would remain roughly the same). Additionally, it would usually triple or quadruple the number of testcases that needed to be QA'ed, given the many different versions of Netscape currently in use the differences between each version (it was simply impossible to test each feature in each version).

Our one client who chose to continue with supporting Netscape did so because of an existing contract with another consulting company which was, in turn, was bound by contract to use Netscape for the project. This other consulting company was providing most of the testing for the site and filling positions throughout our client’s company, and was simply not allowed to use Netscape. (Luckily enough for that consulting company, they broke from their parent company before the SEC destroyed it in the wake of Enron). The inevitable result of all of this is that our client paid entirely too much for the website, simply because what they were insisting on was far more time-consuming. As much as we appreciated the additional revenue, most of us pushed the client to drop Netscape support because we knew it would result in a pissed off client, regardless of whose fault it was. This client has since fired my (former) company and the other consulting company, due to the fact they the projects cost too much and took too long; surprise, surprise.

Essentially, Netscape is the Oracle of web browsers. There is no real good, objective business reason for it to continue to exist, except for the fact that people are used to it, they believe (for one reason or another) that it is better, or they just hate Microsoft.

A few years ago, if you did not support Netscape, you were sacrificing a large portion of the market. Thankfully, this is no longer the case. Despite their grumbling, even most die-hard Netscape users have come to accept that they will need to use IE for some sites (even while they curse the site for requiring IE). If there job requires them to use it, tough.

Of course, most of this applies to web "applications", which people are using to perform their jobs or some other involved processes. It does not really apply to more static informational sites, as making it just look pretty is not that complicated in any browser. Making it do something useful is the problem.

However, much of the time, even basic static sites have to be coded differently to handle multiple browsers. Add to this the public's growing expectation for functionality on a "basic" website, and development companies (and their clients) are going to be support Netscape less and less. It is my estimation that within the next few years most companies will not even consider supporting Netscape unless there is some concrete, unavoidable reason to do so, at which point they will have to seriously consider whether the site is actually worth developing (given its "baggage"). Many of them are doing it now, and it seems to me to be an aggressively accelerating trend. Can you really justify spending $80-90K on a website in order to support Netscape when you could pay $45-50K and only support IE? If the site is going to return $75K in revenue and you still choose to use Netscape, you're stockholders should have the right to relieve you of your duties via a public hanging.

Netscape may have improved over the last few versions, but it's like trying to stop up a dyke with a Q-Tip, there's just too much flow. The web development industry figures that Netscape is not even worth bothering with. Many web developers have forgotten the quirks of Netscape 4.X, and they certainly don't want to relearn them along with whatever the hell is wrong with the new versions.

Add to all of this the fact that they were acquired by AOL, and they seem pretty doomed. I still don't understand how AOL acquired them. It should have been a merger of equals, as both companies are worth less than nothing.

I know enough about Firefox to comment intelligently on it, so, for a change, I won't.

</IMHO>

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, it seems that the Neteller site disables intellisense and password recall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scratch the part about intellisense. I was on a machine that had intellisense disabled. If you have it enabled, it will show up the next time you go to the page. Make clear this out (Tools|Options|Content|Autocomplete). As with the old Netller site, the password won't be stored; it doesn't have the HTML tag setup necessary on the page.

[Stew]

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Awesome, thanks for the reply. I would of course never run Netscape /images/graemlins/smile.gif Looks like I'll be doing some Neteller work this afternoon.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's any problem to log in from work. But, based on Neteller's history, don't be surprised if you're account gets closed and you have to call them to unlock it. This is what happened to me when i logged on from work and I know it has happened to others that log on from computers other than where they usually log on from.

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's any problem to log in from work. But, based on Neteller's history, don't be surprised if you're account gets closed and you have to call them to unlock it. This is what happened to me when i logged on from work and I know it has happened to others that log on from computers other than where they usually log on from.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I regularly log in from two machines at home (granted through the same router), two machines at work, and a machine at a client site, and have not had any problems. (Guessing it's not worth much)

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's any problem to log in from work. But, based on Neteller's history, don't be surprised if you're account gets closed and you have to call them to unlock it. This is what happened to me when i logged on from work and I know it has happened to others that log on from computers other than where they usually log on from.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I regularly log in from two machines at home (granted through the same router), two machines at work, and a machine at a client site, and have not had any problems. (Guessing it's not worth much)

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, this hasn't happened to me in some time and I haven't seen any reports of it lately (Like in the last 6-9 months). But I remember last year there was some dude who logged into Neteller overseas and he had all sorts of problems clearing it up and there were others who did as well.

Maybe they have changed their security measures or flags on this one.

[imported_turvalon]

All good points Moondog and I do very much remember the days of IE vs NS4 but those days are long gone IMHO. You are correct that there isn't any support really for "netscape" but what confuses some is the old netscape vs the netscape engine, gecko, which drives the likes of mozilla, firefox, etc.

From my view, I think IE is crappy because it is inherently insecure, no pop up protection, active x, no tabbed browsing, and doesn't conform to WC3 standards for coding, especially CSS. Security alone is enough reason to stop using IE.

[imported_turvalon]

Funny timing, but I left 2+2 to go read my other usual sites... IE related security problem:

http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3373581

scary that all you have to do is visit a site to have a problem.

[ejess]

This happened to me about a month ago actually.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny timing, but I left 2+2 to go read my other usual sites... IE related security problem:

http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3373581

scary that all you have to do is visit a site to have a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. My wife picked up a trojan that turned our computer into a spam server. Fortunately, our Norton Anti Virus immediately started alerting us that it was scanning outgoing emails for viruses, even though we weren't running our mail client at the time. So, I did some research and figured out what had happened and booted the offending malware out of the Registry. And proceeded to buy and install ZoneAlarm Pro to nip this nonsense in the bud in the future.

She uses IE. I use Firefox. I've never had a problem. I think I'll continue using Firefox.

-Mike