Oh, those annoying reraises!

[fnurt]

I hate when I raise with a legitimate hand in LP and the BB comes back with one of those massive overkill reraises all-in. I shouldn't hate it, but I do. It's just the cavalier manner in which they toss all those chips in, and the way they never seem to do it when I have AA. Anyway, when you're raising from an obvious steal position, it's clear people will play back with less, so when can you justify calling? Here are 3 examples from last night?

1: Folded to me in SB with A9o, I raise 3xBB, BB goes all-in. He is a short stack so the pot is laying me 3-1 on my call.

2: Folded to me in CO with JJ, I raise 3xBB to like 900, BB goes all in for 10k (which is about 1/3 of my stack).

3: Folded to me in CO with AJs, I raise 3xBB to 6000, BB (same guy as #2, and his stack is equal to mine) goes all-in for 25000 or so.

What are your actions in all 3 cases (and yes, I realize the results from #2 might help you answer #3, but bear with me for now)? This could be a serious leak in my game.

[mrbaseball]

If I have them covered in each situation I probably call them all. Situation one and two for sure. Situation 3 I'm not sure? Depends on if I feel I can lose 25K and still compete. I realize this may be a leak in my game /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MLG]

Call. Call. Fold.

Knowing that the BB will do this I will sometimes just move all-in with a massive overbet with A-J in the situation you describe. I know he will play back at me with weak hands and that I won't call, and I want that blind money. 88 shrinks up on him awful fast in that situation. So, if you want to call with A-J in that situation, then massively overbet the pot to begin with. I know its a situation of only getting called when your losing, but with A-J its success rate is high enough to perhaps merit it.

[ohkanada]

1) Easy call.

2) Call against most players.

3) Fold.

Ken

[fnurt]

Oh, and for those who want to fold #3, I wonder if it is more important that (1) AJ is a crappy hand against a raiser, or (2) the BB has you covered.

Obviously they are both factors, I just wonder which is the more important factor in this case.

[tripdad]

sit 1: raise preflop to around half of BB's stack. this way, if SB comes over, you can safely fold. realize that BB may be sitting on a monster, but it is a gamble you must take. 2 1/2 or 3xBB raise is clearly incorrect here.

sit 2: need to know what the stack sizes of Button, and SB are and what level is the tourney at to give solid advice here. assuming none are short, a 2 1/2 to 2.75xBB may be better so if someone comes over, you lose less when you have to fold. no way i call there, knowing i am likely in a coin flip situation.

sit 3: by this level of blinds, i am definitely raising less than 3xBB. 2 1/2 is my SOP. fold if someone comes over the top. again, though...it would be helpful to know the other stacks of those yet to act.

cheers!

[MLG]

sit 2. Likely in a coinflip??? You are possibly in a coinflip. He could be playing over you with 1010, 99, 88, A-J. I think this one is an insta call.

[durron597]

1) Easy easy call.
2) Call against most players, unless he has to have AA-QQ to make a play like this.
3) Easy easy fold. You are ahead of nothing he would do this with, unless you know he is LAG. I would probably fold unless I had him covered 3:1 or more, or if busting him could increase my $ right now (deep in the money) - then I'd probably only need 2:1 to consider it.

This happened to me last night, actually: I have TT in MP, UTG limps (he does this alot). I have about T2600, he has T5000, blinds are T50/T100. I raise to T400, folded to UTG who pushes in. I briefly consider folding when I remember how he built his stack: he did the same thing to someone with 77, they had 88 but he hit his set to bust them. So I call, and he says "Wow that was a fast call" and turns over A/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. I win the coinflip - though he ended up my T/images/graemlins/heart.gif short of a royal - and he's mad that I made that call. Then I point out that I'd seen him do that with a small PP before so I assumed that's what he had - no response from him /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[tripdad]

you may be right, but if i have a T30000 stack, and he has T10000, i don't want to end the hand tied with him in case you aren't. myself, if i were BB, i would not make the all-in move with anything that loses to JJ (other than AK) unless i think he is stealing. in which case, i would do it with lots of hands. maybe folding to the all-in makes me weak, but right now, i've got 100xBB and i'd like to get my money in in a bit better spot.

cheers!

[ohkanada]

"3: Folded to me in CO with AJs, I raise 3xBB to 6000, BB (same guy as #2, and his stack is equal to mine) goes all-in for 25000 or so."

Okay I may have to revisit this one. I was thinking your raise was much smaller compared to your stack. I think this is a tougher situation here and a call is correct in a lot of cases. Assuming this player has any brains, he understands you are in steal position. So he clearly can re-steal with a lesser ace as well as a few other non-pair hands. So if he plays straightforward and isn't likely re-stealing it is an easy muck, otherwise a call may well be the play.

I find the situations when your typical raise is 20-30 percent of your stack the toughest. You hate getting called with a steal hand because you likely will miss but if you go all-in instead and overbet the pot you will only get called by better hands or underpairs.

Ken

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

1. His all-in isn't that big, so call. If the stacks are anywhere near equal I probably fold
2. Easy call. He can be reraising here with any pair or AT.
3. Tough one, but if you folded the JJ hand to him it's a call.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
you may be right, but if i have a T30000 stack, and he has T10000, i don't want to end the hand tied with him in case you aren't. myself, if i were BB, i would not make the all-in move with anything that loses to JJ (other than AK) unless i think he is stealing. in which case, i would do it with lots of hands. maybe folding to the all-in makes me weak, but right now, i've got 100xBB and i'd like to get my money in in a bit better spot.

cheers!

[/ QUOTE ]

In hand 1, I am the SB, I'm not sure if you caught that. I didn't quite follow your advice.

For hand 3, as far as what you would do in the BB, I am with you, but you put your finger on it when you said "unless I think he is stealing." I'm open-raising from CO, aren't a lot of players going to put me on a steal?

Maybe I overrate the likelihood of someone playing back at a LP raiser, which in turn causes me to call too many of these reraises. But when you're in the blind and someone raises from CO or button, isn't your first thought likely to be, there's some [censored] trying to steal my blinds?

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]

In hand 1, I am the SB, I'm not sure if you caught that. I didn't quite follow your advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are right. i didn't catch that you were SB here.

at any rate, when you raise 3xBB here, BB may put you on a steal. if he does, he will come over the top all-in with mediocre hands like KQ or A 10, figuring he has some folding equity. had you raised half his stack, he may lay down a better hand than your A-9, as he will only come over the top with a premium hand knowing that you MUST call because of pot odds.

at any rate, i still think you need to call him here.

cheers!

[jwvdcw]

another vote for call,call, fold...although, in generlal, I wouldn't try to steal with A-9. I would rather try to steal with rags on a total bluff, so I can just lay it down if this happens.

[fnurt]

Fair enough, but if I have A9 heads-up, am I really stealing? How would you play it?

[cferejohn]

I call the first one for sure. The second one I call unless I have a read that this player would only do this with JJ-AA or AK. Third one I normally fold unless I have a read that this player will play back with alot of hands.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, but if I have A9 heads-up, am I really stealing? How would you play it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. Actually, since *he* has less than 10x the BB lef,t I might just put him in preflop, so he doesn't think I can be pushed off it. I probably have the best hand. If I'm wrong, so be it, but there aren't any other players to worry about now.

[Pat Southern]

hand #1. I think you should have put him all in preflop instead of raising to 3BB if he's such a short stack.

hand #2. Easy call

Hand #3. Reluctantly fold.

[shaniac]

1. Fold.

Edit: Maybe this isn't as clear a fold as I initially thought but I think we need more information than that the call was laying 3-1. What are the blinds and where in the tournament are you for these situations? I believe it's not always good idea to call in marginal situations getting good odds, because the chips you save are chips you will want to double up with at some point in the tournament. The consensus seems to be that pushing allin is the best move, but it depends on what the blinds/stacks are. Calling is probably preferrable if it's in the early levels.

2. Call.

3. Tough one, depends on where you are in the tournament. Probably fold.

In the $109 rebuy the other day with 10 or 11 players left, I had recently acquired a big stack. I made a standard raise on the button with AJ. Dud711 called in the BB. Flop was ace high. He bet I think I went allin or made a healthy raise and he folded. We had equal stacks when I got the button again with JJ, same raise. This time he goes allin.

This was a fairly easy fold, but not automatic, since I was a virtual lock for the final table (one player was actually sitting out ?! at the other table) barring any disasters. In the case where an oppponent has 1/3rd your chips and is making a play based on the perception that you are stealing, JJ is probably too good to fold.

Shane

[fnurt]

I called in all 3 hands. Told you I had a leak!

1: He had JJ. Can't feel bad about my call given the odds. I think the people who recommended a larger raise had it right, though. Anyway, I flop an ace and win.

2: He had KK, oh well.

3: This one was the diciest mainly because there was no logic behind it. My thinking at the time was, the same guy just CAN'T have 2 big hands against me, which of course makes no sense whatsoever. Anyway, he had AA, game over.

Thanks for the comments, everyone, they were very helpful.

[SeppDeitrich]

I would call 1 every time, 2 about 90% of the time, 3 i would probably fold.