Trapped like a skunk. My bad?

[marcstck]

Recently started playing NL after getting sick of the suck outs in low limit. Been doing pretty well, but got my butt handed to me on this hand last night. All comments welcome. Hand was played at Ultimate Bet (somewhat tighter than Party) .25/.50 NL ring, $50 max buy in:

I'm dealt Ks Qh in MP. My stack is a little over max buy in, I've only been at the table a few hands, so no good reads. EP with equal stack limps in, I limp in (a bit weak. I'll muck this hand more often than not), BB sees a "free" flop.

Pot is $1.75

Flop comes Ks 3h Qs.

I've got top two pair /images/graemlins/grin.gif, I'm feeling pretty good. BB checks, EP checks, I bet the pot, not wanting to give any draws a free card. BB folds, EP calls. I figure him on a draw.

Turn comes 4c.

No help there, thinks I. Opponent checks, I again bet pot, still not wanting to give a free ride to a flush. Opponent then RERAISES to $25! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif What the f*ck, says I. Despite the fact that huge warning lights should be going off in my head, I'm blinded by my two picture two pair. I reraise all-in. Opponent quickly calls.

River is a rag.

My opponent turns over pocket 3's for a flopped set, crushing my two pair and my stack. Ouch.

My questions: Can anybody get away from top two pair in this situation? Should I have been able to sniff out a set based on my opponent's sudden aggression, and just laid 'em down? Looking back, it seems that the only hand that I beat in this scenario is a lesser two pair. Is this an expensive lesson I should take to heart, or just a poker "thang" that, well, just happens?

Thanks in advance for all comments...

[aces_full]

I'm interested in hearing a reply from the more seasoned NL guys here. I had a similar hand last night at Paradise .25BB NL.

I'm on the button with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and there are four limpers to see the flop. The flop is 52X with two /images/graemlins/heart.gif's. It's checked around to me, and try to take the pot down here by betting, I think about $1.50 (about the size of the pot). I get one caller. Since the board is two-suited, I put him on the most obvious hand-a flush draw. There's no big cards on the board, so I'm not feeling too strongly that he has a piece of it, maybe a pocket pair, but no real piece of the board. The turn brings an offsuit 5 giving me three of a kind with an ace kicker. He checks again. Now I have a real hand here, and if he's on the draw, or has two pair, I'm not letting him see the river for cheap. I make another pot-sized bet here, and he calls. Another brick hits the river, there are no straights or flushes possible, and all of a sudden he comes alive. If I remember correctly, the pot was about $15 by now and he bets $6. Warning bells probably should have been going off here, should they have? Well I call and he shows 22 for twos full of fives. He flopped a set and played me for a fool the whole hand.

[Smasharoo]

I think you have to get away from it.

He knows you have a hand, and checkraises you all in.

I guess it's possible at that limit that he has AK or something, but it's unlikely even at .25.50 he's going to check raise you on the turn with that board.

I'd have to lay it down and fight another day. You said it yourself that warning bells were going off.

I have this theory that I want to be trembling with glee to call an all in or I'm laying it down.

[Huskiez]

One important thing to note in this hand is that the check raiser called his hand preflop in EP. Now if this is Party all that means is he has two cards. In UB, I think he probably has something decent.

I definitely like the bets on the flop and turn. Now when villain checkraises you on the turn, what hands could he have that he would have called in EP and made this play on the turn? KK, QQ (going for the limp reraise), 33, AA, KQ, AK, JT, or a flush draw. Only against the sets are you trailing. You're not looking good against a set, but there are many hands you are leading.

I think in the end I would end up pushing on the turn like you did. Top two pair on a draw heavy board can face some resistance from a drawing hand trying to win the pot right there. If the board were something like K83/4 rainbow and you had K8, then you have to be a lot more wary of facing a set.

[Huskiez]

I'll assume the X on the flop was higher than a 5 as you said no straights or flushes were possible on the river. So the board was 552XY. I think I'm going to pay off a bet on the river, simply because he could be trying to steal the pot after chasing a draw, or could have the other 5, trying to extract value for his hand.

I don't think there was anything you could do to get out of this hand, and the villain probably could have charged you more if he knew your hand.

[aces_full]

I also thought that he could be thinking that I was betting the draw, and when it missed, he was going to take the pot since he figured all I had was a busted draw.

Personally I think he got lucky in winning that pot. I don't like the way he played it, and he really deserved to lose. I don't think bottom set on a two toned board in a multi-way pot is the time to sandbag. If I simply decided to check behind him rather than go for the pot, he would have been making a grave error by allowing his three opponents to take a free turn and beat his hand. Even after I bet, he should have check raised to get the people between us out of the pot for sure (and I would have probably dumped too).

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
I also thought that he could be thinking that I was betting the draw, and when it missed, he was going to take the pot since he figured all I had was a busted draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he were to suspect you to have a busted draw, I think it makes more sense for him to check call as you certainly won't call a bet without any hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I think he got lucky in winning that pot. I don't like the way he played it, and he really deserved to lose. I don't think bottom set on a two toned board in a multi-way pot is the time to sandbag. If I simply decided to check behind him rather than go for the pot, he would have been making a grave error by allowing his three opponents to take a free turn and beat his hand. Even after I bet, he should have check raised to get the people between us out of the pot for sure (and I would have probably dumped too).

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree with your reasoning here. Remember that the FTOP shows that you won here, as I am sure if you reverse the situation, you're going to be taking more money off him than he did off you in this hand. I think your opponent definitely misplayed his hand, but I don't think he necessarily got lucky (other than you catching trips so he could get some extra money out of you).

[marcstck]

Guess my play wasn't as horrid as I thought. Just feel like my spidey sense should have warned me off this hand. But those Big Two Pair pictures sure were seductive. Perhaps I should have just called his turn bet, but I probably would have pushed on the river if I did.

Guess a lay down on the turn is currently beyond me at my current skill level... Hopefully I'll learn to sniff out the set next time...

[umdpoker]

i would probably have trouble laying that down as well. at party, i would almost never lay that down, if ever. i hardly ever consider dropping bottom 2 pr at party. never played at ub, but have heard there are better players there, so maybe a turn check-raise should send off warning signs. still a tough laydown though.

[umdpoker]

"I have this theory that I want to be trembling with glee to call an all in or I'm laying it down. "

at party, i would be trembling with glee if i get checkraised allin with top 2 pr.

[LikesToLose]

I agree that top 2 pair on Party is probably the best hand. Last night, I had A's. Raised my standard raise of 4bb preflop and got called by 3 players.

Flop comes K,5,5 with an $8 pot. I pot bet it and get raised to about $20. 1 folds and the other calls. It comes back to me and I bet all-in for another $35. Both call.

They turn over K,6 and K,9 respectively.