Straight vs Flush

[dhk42]

I am mostly a limit player, but I occasionally play no-limit in tournaments and home games. Every once in a while in no-limit a situation comes up that leave me feeling clueless.

I was playing in a home game against a player that I know very well. I have 3-4 times his stack in front of me. I flopped the nut straight. A flush draw was possible and I know this player loves the flushes. He will chase them incorrectly (a hold-over from limit play). The pot was large enough that I wouldn't mind winning immediately.

So I bet the pot. He called. The turn was a blank. The pot is quite large at this point. I bet the pot again. He hesitates for a moment and calls. I am feeling increasingly sure that he is on a flush draw, though not dead certain.

The river makes the flush possible. Because of my read I check. He bets all in for about 1/3-1/2 the pot.

I not only know that this guy loves flushes, I also know that he likes to bluff and that he knows I am capable of folding anything short of the nuts in the right situation. So my check has left me in a tough spot. I make the crying call.

How should I have played the river? Check and fold? Check and call? Bet and fold to a re-raise?

My play here feels very inconsistent. If I am putting in big bets to make drawing wrong, then surely it is wrong to pay off when they hit. But when faced with the bet from a possible bluffer it seemed much less clear at the time.

David

[newcool]

I think you made the right play here because odds that he has any suited cards are 23.5% and odds that he has the suit for the flush are 5.88% so it is very unlikely that he actually has it.

Results?

[SpiderMnkE]

I think you either have to put him in... or check call his all in.

Say you each put in a dollar pf. Say neither of you is in a blind... so there is 3.50 in the pot. He checks to you.. you pot.. he calls..

Now there is 10.5 in the pot. He checks.. you pot.. he calls. Now there is $31.5 in the pot.

This dude is pot committed for sure... unless you have some ridiculous read... it is hard to put him on a flush draw. you have the nut straight... so unless he was on the flush draw you are the winner.

You check.. he bets 1/2 the pot.. now there is like $47 in the pot. You have to call 15 to win 47.. this gives you roughly 3:1 on your call.

So if he doesn't have the flush once in four times the call is correct. I think you might have to call here.

Anyone else have any input.. I'm bad at math and this was quick rough guestimating... I'm not confident with my analysis here... so any further advice would be just hot... yeah baby... yeah!

[schwza]

you don't need to do all that math. if the push is for 1/2 the pot, hero needs to call 1 to win 3, and is getting 3:1. for a 1/3-pot push, it's call 1 to win 4, or 4:1.

i think hero played it fine here. you have to pay this off here, especially against someone you think can bluff. you successfully charged him and he happened to hit - don't sweat it.

[Thythe]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you made the right play here because odds that he has any suited cards are 23.5% and odds that he has the suit for the flush are 5.88% so it is very unlikely that he actually has it.

Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

But the opponent isn't just holding random cards. He wouldn't have been calling all the way if he just had any two cards. This means the odds that he has a flush are a lot higher than the 5.88% you mention.

[dhk42]

[ QUOTE ]
Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

He turned over suited Ace rag for the nut flush.

[Sandstone]

No one else here considers moving all-in on the turn? If he's a flush chaser, here is a perfect opportunity to get him to make the biggest mistake possible.

[JrJordan]

It really depends on the player's willinness to call such a bet. Most chronic flush chasers would not call a massive overbet on their draw. I'd prefer the pot sized bet because you're still giving him awful odds to draw. If he calls the turn pot bet, then he's basically pot committed on the river even if he doesn't hit his draw. More times than not the money will end up in the middle on the river anyway, so try and keep him in the pot with the odds lacking pot bet.

[dhk42]

[ QUOTE ]
you don't need to do all that math. if the push is for 1/2 the pot, hero needs to call 1 to win 3, and is getting 3:1. for a 1/3-pot push, it's call 1 to win 4, or 4:1.

i think hero played it fine here. you have to pay this off here, especially against someone you think can bluff. you successfully charged him and he happened to hit - don't sweat it.

[/ QUOTE ]

But did I successfully charge him if I pay off?

Let's see - I'll use a unit of 1 flop pot to keep things easy. From the flop on he called 4 units (pre-river) to win 15 if the final bet was 1/3 pot [2.75:1] . Or 4 units to win 18 if it was 1/2 pot [3.5:1]. He only invests more those times he wins.

This is easily enough to give him sufficient implied odds for his draw. I don't think I charged him enough, but I'm not sure how to fix it.

David

[dhk42]

[ QUOTE ]
No one else here considers moving all-in on the turn? If he's a flush chaser, here is a perfect opportunity to get him to make the biggest mistake possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

After sleeping on this last night, I think I like this play. It probably doesn't make the maximum profit (because he will probably fold the draw), but it punishes him severly if he does call and I might get a call those times he has a set or something like that.

David

[ML4L]

Hey dhk,

You're on the right track. If you know he'll chase, make him pay for it. Then, if the flush comes on the river, you check and then make a read. If the guy is a bluffer, you're probably going to have to pay him off sometimes, especially when there isn't much money left to be bet. But, don't let the size of the pot muddle your read. Fold if you must.

Hope this helps. Not much substance to it, but it's a tricky and player-dependent situation.

ML4L