Does this seem too swingy to you?

[SpaceAce]

When I play short-handed tables online, it is normal for me to burn through 30 big bets or more per table before stabilizing and starting to claw my way out. I almost always find myself in a hole at some point in the session, often at the beginning. It is also normal for me to swing from being up 15-20 big bets to being down 15-20 big bets and to end the session up 20+ big bets. Tonight I was playing two tables and was down almost 70 big bets in a pretty short time. I finished up a couple of bets and surely would have finished up even further but I needed a break.

This is normal for me, day in and day out, week after week, month after month. I rarely have a losing online session (God bless the hands per hour) but oh boy does my stack fluctuate. I wonder if I am just being overly aggressive in short-handed games; playing too many hands, raising too often with second pair, etc. Some of it is bad beats and obvious mistakes (calling that one more bet on the turn or river when I know I shouldn't, calling the flop three-bet that means I'm beaten 75% of the time) but even adding up all the obvious boo-boos and bad beats doesn't seem to explain the overall wildness in the swings. Yesterday I had an extra-swingy day with the difference between my low point and my high point being well over 100 big bets.

I'm not complaining; my bankroll grows consistently larger at the end of the day. The online players tend to be so bad that pretty much every game I sit in is a good game in my opinion. I am just wondering if my roller-coaster experiences are more than normal even for short-handed play.

SpaceAce

[fnord_too]

If you always (or even most of the time) drop a bunch of big bets at the beginning of the session, I would say that that is not normal. You should post this in the psychology forum, they discuss things like this often there. Here are a few thoughts and questions:

Is this at Party, or some other site where the lineup chnages frequently? Or at a site where the players stick arround for a good while? This is important because dropping some chips at the beginning of a long session where your opponents will stick around is a common advertising tactic. I personally don't play in any games at the moment where advertising has any real value, but it is possible you are getting paid off more later in the session due to poorer early play.

I doubt the above is actually the case though, and if it is it is not by design or you wouldn't be asking your question. Again there is much more discussion on this sort of thing in the psycholgy forum, but it sounds like you just don't play your A game until you get stuck some. Fluctuation over the course of a session is perfectly normal. Patterns in the fluction belie something other than the randomness of the cards.

I would suggest looking very hard at how you play at the start of the session as opposed to how you play when you start clawing your way back. Also, I would look for other trends, like tightenting up too much when you are up, or loosening up to much when you are up, or any situation where you consistently play ayour cards differently.

[fyodor]

Losing at the start of a session is a syndrome I too suffer from on occaison. It seems with no reads I often go to war with the table rock and then fold against the biggest idiot around. After a cpl rounds I see who I am against and adjust.

It's a good reason to sit out a round or two before actually putting your chips on the table. Who has time for that though? Could suck up 5 minutes of my life.

[Joe826]

I've heard a few people talk about always losing when they first start a session but I really haven't noticed. I know the greater swings are normal but they are killing me as well. Just curious, but how long are your sessions if you rarely end them down? I had a 100 BB slide (first slide that big) within a few hours yesterday and then just played another 6 hours to end that session down 7 more BB heheh. Not a whole lot of fun, but I guess it's mostly normal.

[jacksfull]

You need to tighten up your play when you sit down. Tightening up is the answer to swings in your bankroll. It is completely appropriate to loosen up when the game is short-handed, but playing too loose will lead to wide swings in your stack.

The fact that you are able to get back to even and come out ahead is a sign that you are beating the game. This also suggests that you are playing better after seeing your opponents play for awhile. Shorthanded, you are playing the player more than your cards. So give yourself a chance to size up the players you are playing against before you start to risk chips. Promise yourself you won't bet and raise unless you have top pair or better, or a draw to the nuts. Then, after a half hour or so, you can begin to open up a little. But this time you will be starting nearly even instead of 30 bets behind.

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to tighten up your play when you sit down. Tightening up is the answer to swings in your bankroll. It is completely appropriate to loosen up when the game is short-handed, but playing too loose will lead to wide swings in your stack.

The fact that you are able to get back to even and come out ahead is a sign that you are beating the game. This also suggests that you are playing better after seeing your opponents play for awhile. Shorthanded, you are playing the player more than your cards. So give yourself a chance to size up the players you are playing against before you start to risk chips. Promise yourself you won't bet and raise unless you have top pair or better, or a draw to the nuts. Then, after a half hour or so, you can begin to open up a little. But this time you will be starting nearly even instead of 30 bets behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

what he said. welcome to the forumn!

cheers!

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this at Party, or some other site where the lineup chnages frequently? Or at a site where the players stick arround for a good while? This is important because dropping some chips at the beginning of a long session where your opponents will stick around is a common advertising tactic. I personally don't play in any games at the moment where advertising has any real value, but it is possible you are getting paid off more later in the session due to poorer early play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly I play short-handed at Poker Stars these days.

[ QUOTE ]
Again there is much more discussion on this sort of thing in the psycholgy forum, but it sounds like you just don't play your A game until you get stuck some. Fluctuation over the course of a session is perfectly normal.

[/ QUOTE ]

There may be some truth in that. I didn't mean to give the impression that I always end up in a hole at the beginning or that that is the only time I end up down. It is common for me to lose in the beginning but it doesn't happen every time and the really big holes and swings I am talking about usually occur in the middle of a session or don't reach their high (low) point until I have been playing for a while.

[ QUOTE ]
I would suggest looking very hard at how you play at the start of the session as opposed to how you play when you start clawing your way back. Also, I would look for other trends, like tightenting up too much when you are up, or loosening up to much when you are up, or any situation where you consistently play ayour cards differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have considered this, already. As I said above, there may be some truth to that but I don't think it's a beginning/middle/end of session pattern. My patience sometimes waxes and wanes over the course of a session and I will find myself not playing to the best of my ability. As soon as I spot this, I correct it and I don't think that particular behavior it is related to whether I am winning or losing.

SpaceAce

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Losing at the start of a session is a syndrome I too suffer from on occaison. It seems with no reads I often go to war with the table rock and then fold against the biggest idiot around. After a cpl rounds I see who I am against and adjust.


[/ QUOTE ]

That might also be part of it. Especially at short-handed tables, I am reluctant to give players credit for a bigger hand when I have a big hand myself until I've seen how they play when they really have the goods.

SpaceAce

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to tighten up your play when you sit down. Tightening up is the answer to swings in your bankroll. It is completely appropriate to loosen up when the game is short-handed, but playing too loose will lead to wide swings in your stack.

The fact that you are able to get back to even and come out ahead is a sign that you are beating the game. This also suggests that you are playing better after seeing your opponents play for awhile. Shorthanded, you are playing the player more than your cards. So give yourself a chance to size up the players you are playing against before you start to risk chips. Promise yourself you won't bet and raise unless you have top pair or better, or a draw to the nuts. Then, after a half hour or so, you can begin to open up a little. But this time you will be starting nearly even instead of 30 bets behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of like this advice. What fyodor said makes sense to me and this goes hand-in-hand with that. Maybe I am just tearing into the game a little too hard when I sit down. That's what I love about short-handed play, though. I like the aggression and the ability to play more hands and the higher hands per hour rate that allows me to play that many more hands against really bad players. Man, tightening up like that is going to be hard for me. I love to attack the short-handed games. I think I'll try it and see if I can stick to it and whether or not it works, at least in the beginning. The thing is, like I said, I don't swing only at the beginning of a session. Sometimes I spend a whole session swinging around, sometimes I win steadily from the word go and sometimes (rarely) things are calm with a little up and a little down.

I am going to try easing off the hammer a bit but I don't think I am going to like it. One of the main reasons I like the short-handed games is the speed and intensity. I even play the $.02/$.04 heads-up tables just for the action.

SpaceAce

[T0asty]

If you are beating the game, I wouldn't change your game too much, easing off on that hammer could bring down your win rate.