Trapped pre-flop with 66 -- How did I do.

[colgin]

Table is pretty loose, around 5 to the flop average. Pre-flop raises occur less than half the time.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (18.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (10.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, UTG calls.

River: (14.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 16.66 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 16.66 BB, between Hero and UTG.</font>

How did I do on this one?

[colgin]

Bump

[MoreWineII]

Whenever I get trapped PF with a low pair, I always try to be sure and flop a set.

Nice hand, looks good to me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Trix]

I would have raised the flop. Sometimes the loose guys behind calls anyway and you will get more action as it looks like your are protecting 77 or such.

[bisonbison]

I agree with trix. If one of these guys has an overpair, get the money in while they're not thinking about the size of the bets.

[colgin]

UTG had A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif and MHIG.

First, I just wanted to make sure that calling back two bets to me pre-flop was OK.

Second, I was wondering whether it was better to raise the flop or the turn. In this regard, the related questions are whether I am trying to win the pot now or build a pot. With six players for three bets each pre-flop, the pot is big so the "you want to win big pots now principal" seems to apply. On the other hand, my hand is very strong. I am not trying to protect top pair in a big pot but have a set. My equity is huge. Do I just want to not worry about doing everything to win the pot and focus on building a big pot. Even if I am focusing on building a big pot am I better off raising the flop or the turn.

I expected more callers behind me when I just called the flop. If I had raised anybody with a decent draw would still have the odds to continue but those drawing dead or virtually dead could have folded more easily. By just calling on the flop I potentially keep in those drawing dead (or close to it) without hurting myself aghainst those drawing very live. On the other hand, I would have probably extracted more from UTG if I had raised the flop. UTG probaly would have three-bet with his pocket Aces and then I could have capped.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.

Colgin

[TJD]

1) Why give the gutshot str8 draws better odds to call?
2) What do you think a guy with 77 behind you will do if you raise? What would you LIKE him to do? What would YOU do?
3) Should 2 overcards and a backdoor FD call you if you raise? Almost certainly but what about 1 overcard and 2 spades?
4) What about the guy who has flopped a lower set?

I see this slowplay of a set again and again. It completely amazes me! If I bet/raise a flop you do not know whether I have a set or not. I have several players in my database against whom I have ; "Loose/Passive;bets/raises flop = NO SET/Trips"

Typical action. I have TPTK say; ignore other players for now:-

SPSM (slow play set merchant)

Flop
SPSM check; Hero bets; SPSM call

Turn
SPSM check; Hero bets; SPSM raise; Hero fold!

Total income for SPSM - 1.5 BB

If SPSM bets flop, I will raise, if they RR they already have 1.5 BB. If they S&amp;G and bet turn and river, I will probably HAVE to at least call. Total income for SPSM 3BB.

There are times to slow play a set but they are very rare. I have seen so many pots lost by a SPSM it is unbelievable. The number of times they have won FEWER bets as a result of their "cleverness" is even more prevelant.

I can only presume that they just enjoy the "trickiness". I enjoy the profit that is gained from all those callers and reraisers.

Spend some time looking in the mid-high stakes forum. They virtually NEVER sp sets or trips.

To be fair at lower limits, it might be possible sometimes to pick up extra bets with this SP but I see more money LOST because of it than won.

NB - I am not accusing you of being a SPSM. You were concerned about 2 conflicting principles and chose the SP in order to confront the players behind with a double turn bet. However, I think it is certainly better here to get the money in while it is available. Let's build a huge pot and hopefully win it. On the way we may well lose a few players as well acheiving your aims as well.

As it happens what do you think the AA guy would have done if you raised? Folded? Don't think so! Checked the turn intending to fold?

Bet them sets!

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Why give the gutshot str8 draws better odds to call?
2) What do you think a guy with 77 behind you will do if you raise? What would you LIKE him to do? What would YOU do?
3) Should 2 overcards and a backdoor FD call you if you raise? Almost certainly but what about 1 overcard and 2 spades?
4) What about the guy who has flopped a lower set?


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I started to reply to this one twice and you said it better than I would have.

I like a flop bet because this flop is too coordinated to be complacent and you have to be concerned about the Button. He definitely was getting odds to play 34s or 78s against 5 players.

If you raise the flop and chase the Button out, you're going to get that bet back from the overpair, anyway. You may even see the overpair play back if you give him the chance.