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View Full Version : Turn 3bet on draw- need help


scooby
07-27-2004, 03:29 PM
UTG raiser is very laggy- he likes to raise draws and try to move people off better hands. He raised UTG with T7o before, betting whole way on an AQJ board. That being said, I'm wondering if my turn 3bet is too laggy. Since he didn't cap it, I was pretty sure I had 12 clean outs. Comments?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls.

Given he's almost a maniac, I think this might be too extreme. REasoning: I can call the c/r, and then simply call the river if an A or K hits if I want, and the pots already kinda big and I'd like to see a showdown if I hit the river. If I miss, it's not too expensive. If an Ace or K hits on the river and I get c/r again, I'm not very happy...so in retrospect, I'm not so sure about this 3bet, and thus I'd like comments.

River: (10.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls.

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows 5s 7s (flush, queen high).
Hero shows Ks As (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.75 BB. </font>

Guido
07-27-2004, 03:59 PM
I think it's quite simple. When he has something you should call his check-raise. When he has nothing you should 3-bet. Because you obviously don't know if he has something or not I would call the check-raise. Even when you have 18 outs a 3-bet isn't for value.

Guido

naphand
07-27-2004, 04:02 PM
You have 9 flush outs, 3 x A, 3 x K and 3 x T. That's a possible 18 outs. I guess you mean 12 outs to the straight and flush?

You are the PF aggressor and LAG has shown very little so far. HU if you think he can fold then a bet might be OK, or esp. if you think he is on a draw. But facing a CR I think 3-betting is too much. His CR means he really likes his hand and you likely have to improve. HU you are a slight dog to win on the Turn, against any 2-suited, any PP, any Q/J/9/6.

Zele
07-27-2004, 04:42 PM
I agree with your own second-guess. Call the c/r, and call a river bet unimproved against this maniac.