JrJordan
07-27-2004, 01:52 PM
I'm gonna follow Chris's lead with this series idea and get the next one rolling. I'm sure we've all been in this situation before, a missed AK on the flop. I'd like to list several possible scenarios for this, give my opinion on them, and see what everyone else thinks. We will assume this game is Party $50 NL so we have relatively loose passive play but not nearly as bad as $25's. I'll give some reads on players, but other times it's just a judgement call without a read.
Scenario 1:
Hero is on the button with A /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG, MP, and CO all limp $1. Hero raises to $5, UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls.
Flop: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG and CO both check. What is hero's action here?
<font color="blue"> Perhaps this is a weak-tight tendency here for me. In the past I have been very apprehensive to betting a missed flop with two opponents against me. In this situation this is a rainbow flop with no real draws. I don;t mind giving an extra card and I might hit my overcard. If someone bets into me on the turn after I miss again, I usually fold here. </font>
Scenario 2:
Similar situation to scenario 1, except only CO calls your preflop raise to $5. Same flop of 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gifj /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO checks to you, Hero...
<font color="blue"> The pot at this point is around $12-$13. Against one opponent I'm prone to make a steal and take the pot. I'm more likely to do this against the CO than I would the UTG if he were the only caller because CO is more likely to have the weaker hand with his better relative position. I've experimented with various bet sizes and so far have found a 3/4 bet to be the most profitable. It seems to have the same folding equity as a pot sized bet would, however if they call or reraise, you lose less on your steal. A half pot bet is often times read for weakness and is too easily called when what you really want is a fold. Anyone else experiment with different steal bets? </font>
Scenario 3:
Hero is UTG+1 with A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG folds, Hero raises to $4. MP and CO call, both blinds fold.
Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero...
<font color="blue"> Out of position against two opponents with a missed flop. Seems like an easy check to me. Possible you could bet them out, however more often than not you'll meet a call or reraise because of the possible draws out there. </font>
Scenario 4:
Similar to #3 again, except only CO calls the preflop raise. Same flop, action is to Hero...
<font color="blue"> This is the most difficult decision for me among the 4, which goes to show how hard it is to play out of position in NL/PL. I think I'd make a stab at this pot and hope he'll fold. Any call and I'm done betting unless the A or K hits. If I have a read that he may be on a draw, I might hit again on the turn, and check it down on the river with an A high. Any reraise and I go power fold mode. </font>
Hopefully these scenarios will fuel some discussion of position regarding missed flops. It happens way too often to disregard.
Scenario 1:
Hero is on the button with A /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG, MP, and CO all limp $1. Hero raises to $5, UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls.
Flop: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG and CO both check. What is hero's action here?
<font color="blue"> Perhaps this is a weak-tight tendency here for me. In the past I have been very apprehensive to betting a missed flop with two opponents against me. In this situation this is a rainbow flop with no real draws. I don;t mind giving an extra card and I might hit my overcard. If someone bets into me on the turn after I miss again, I usually fold here. </font>
Scenario 2:
Similar situation to scenario 1, except only CO calls your preflop raise to $5. Same flop of 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gifj /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO checks to you, Hero...
<font color="blue"> The pot at this point is around $12-$13. Against one opponent I'm prone to make a steal and take the pot. I'm more likely to do this against the CO than I would the UTG if he were the only caller because CO is more likely to have the weaker hand with his better relative position. I've experimented with various bet sizes and so far have found a 3/4 bet to be the most profitable. It seems to have the same folding equity as a pot sized bet would, however if they call or reraise, you lose less on your steal. A half pot bet is often times read for weakness and is too easily called when what you really want is a fold. Anyone else experiment with different steal bets? </font>
Scenario 3:
Hero is UTG+1 with A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG folds, Hero raises to $4. MP and CO call, both blinds fold.
Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero...
<font color="blue"> Out of position against two opponents with a missed flop. Seems like an easy check to me. Possible you could bet them out, however more often than not you'll meet a call or reraise because of the possible draws out there. </font>
Scenario 4:
Similar to #3 again, except only CO calls the preflop raise. Same flop, action is to Hero...
<font color="blue"> This is the most difficult decision for me among the 4, which goes to show how hard it is to play out of position in NL/PL. I think I'd make a stab at this pot and hope he'll fold. Any call and I'm done betting unless the A or K hits. If I have a read that he may be on a draw, I might hit again on the turn, and check it down on the river with an A high. Any reraise and I go power fold mode. </font>
Hopefully these scenarios will fuel some discussion of position regarding missed flops. It happens way too often to disregard.