8-8 - Turn action?

[Avatar]

Neither UTG+2 or MP1 have gotten out of line since I've been on the table.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

I immediately put UTG+2 on the flopped flush. But perhaps one I can beat if I hit my draw. MP1 is probably sitting with an overpair at this point, but I can't really tell if he'd have a spade. I'm leaning towards not, as I think he'd cap the flop.

Turn: (9 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero ??

What is Hero's action on the turn and river?

[TheHip41]

Fold. You are either losing to a flush, or overpair. You raised the flop for information, and you got it, getting raised everywhere, now you can use this info. Just fold, wait for a better spot. Chances are you have two clean outs (two 8's), and even if you make a flush, you are probably behind a larger one. I mean, you can't even get any value out of a flush, if someone bets after the fourth spade hits, can you really raise with your 8s?
Derek

[Brian]

Hi avatar,

Fold pre-Flop. Cold-calling's bad, m'kay? You say MP1 hasn't gotten out of line, so you'll often be looking at an overpair here. Do you have the odds to call and hope for the set? I'll let you answer that one for yourself. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Sticking to the maxim of 3-betting or folding pre-Flop will have you playing very close to optimal strategy.

The Flop raise is good. That's about as good of a Flop as you could hope to get that doesn't have an 8. With the 3-bet on the Flop, though, your 8s out ain't looking so hot any more, and you don't even have an overpair to the board. I'd fold the Turn.

-Brian

[DeeJ]

Fold. If you call and hit your flush, you have to be hoping that neither of the other players who have been 3 betting an all /images/graemlins/spade.gif flop has nothing higher than 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif which seems a remote remote remote possibility. If there is no flush out there you aren't beating much unless you catch an 8 on the river. A 2 could be an expensive loser, too.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]

Cold-calling's bad, m'kay? You say MP1 hasn't gotten out of line, so you'll often be looking at an overpair here. Do you have the odds to call and hope for the set? I'll let you answer that one for yourself. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Sticking to the maxim of 3-betting or folding pre-Flop will have you playing very close to optimal strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon, Brian, if you've read Ed's posts over the past year you should know that there are times when it is perfectly fine to coldcall with a PP without expecting set odds before the flop is dealt...although I'ld probably want at least one more limper before the raise to make the coldcall here.

[Brian]

Yes, there are certainly times when it is acceptable to cold-call a raise with 88, and I never said there weren't. But this wasn't one of them, and if Avatar consistently makes these types of cold-calls, then it will be a drain on his bankroll.

I'd say I make 1-2 cold-calls per 2k hands. The situations just really don't come up all that often, and I probably wouldn't be giving up all too much by folding. However, if you cold-call often, then you'll certainly be giving a lot away. So, I suggest for most that until you're pretty certain that a cold-call is correct, to just fold if the hand definitely doesn't warrant a 3-bet.

-Brian

[Avatar]

Thx for the replies all. Taken into consideration.

Brian do you mean 1-2 88 cold-calls / 2k hands, or 1-2 cold-calls overall / 2k hands?

[Brian]

1-2 cold calls overall per 2k hands. I play about 2k hands a day, so that's why I use that number.

-Brian