SNG all-in hand groupings

[ZeeJustin]

I have computed a new set of hand groupings according to the following rules.

Group 1 contains every hand.
All the hands in group 2 have an EV (hot and cold) of at least 50% against a random hand.
Etc.

I will post my results in a few hours. Before I do, I want everyone that reads this to test themselves.

Without running ANY simulations, answer the following questions:

1) How many groups do you think there are? (note that the final group has AA by itself)

2) What hands would you estimate go into group 3?

3) What use is this to someone that plays in SNGs?

Feel free to post your answers (remember, no simulations allowed!) I will post the exact results in a few hours.

Edit: Hot and cold simply means there's no folding or postflop betting.

[SumZero]

If I understand your question you are saying Group 2 are the hands that are >=50% against random Group 1 hands. And likewise Group 3 are the hands that are >=50% against random Group 2 hands. Etc.

How many groups are there: I'd say about 10. (all hands, all hands Q8 higher, all hands K4 higher, all hands A5 higher, all hands AQ higher, all pairs 5 higher, all pairs T and higher, all pairs Q and higher, all pairs K and higher, AA).

How many hands in group 3: a lot. about 25% of all hands.

What use is this to SNG: My guess is you want to say some group are the hands you should go all in when short stacked, and some other group is the hands you should call all in someone else's all in who might be using this same guide.

[stupidsucker]

I am very interested to see these results. I honestly have no clue about how it will all work out. I can only guess (If I understand right) Each new group will be 50% smaller then the previous group.

[ZeeJustin]

Group 1: Every hand
Group 2: 22, Axs, Kxs, Qxs, J6s, T7s, 98s, Axo, Kxo, Q5o, J8o, T9o
Group 3: 44, Axs, K9s, QJs, A4o, KTo
Group 4: 66, ATo, A9s
Group 5: AKo, AQs, TT
Group 6: QQ
Group 7: AA

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Group 1: Every hand
Group 2: 22, Axs, Kxs, Qxs, J6s, T7s, 98s, Axo, Kxo, Q5o, J8o, T9o
Group 3: 44, Axs, K9s, QJs, A4o, KTo
Group 4: 66, ATo, A9s
Group 5: AKo, AQs, TT
Group 6: QQ
Group 7: AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems incomplete. Where's JJ and KK? I suppose KK could be one of the Kxo, but it wouldn't make sense that it wouldn't be above group 2.

Neat idea, btw. I have a program for similar things that could be used to double check your answers, if you want.

eastbay

[eastbay]

Also, it would be cool to list expectation for each hand against the next lower group.

eastbay

[ZeeJustin]

KK is in groups 1-6.
JJ is in groups 1-5.
Do you see why?
I listed the minimum hands in each group, so if J6s is included in a group, then J7s is also in the same group.

[eastbay]

As long as we're doing SM imitations:

"The reason for this is that..."

You could have mentioned your shorthand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Most people write this as TT+, etc.

eastbay

[stupidsucker]

another good stat would be the frequency that each group is dealt.

[parappa]

Completely off-topic, and discussed too many times, but one thing that slaps me across the face every time I read one of these lists, the S/M hand groups, etc., is how weak of a hand AQo appears to be as compared with how strong it intuitively seems. Every time I read a list like this I'm surprised at how far down it AQo is.

[t_perkin]

So what is the significance of these groups?

Can you put in a figure showing the % of hands in each group (i.e. 100% of hands are in group 1). This would be of some value I think.

Thanks

Tim

p.s.: Poor KK doesn't get its own group by .01% /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mackthefork]

G1 - 100.00% - 1 in 1.00
G2 - 49.32% - 1 in 2.03
G3 - 21.87% - 1 in 4.57
G4 - 9.20% - 1 in 10.87
G5 - 3.77% - 1 in 26.53
G6 - 1.36% - 1 in 73.53
G7 - 0.45% - 1 in 221.00

Regards ML

[ddubois]

I would have represented that differently, showing percents as if the groups were mutually exclusive (although by definition they are not):

G1 - 50.68%
G2 - 27.45%
G3 - 12.67%
G4 - 5.43%
G5 - 2.41%
G6 - 0.91%
G7 - 0.45%

[fnurt]

The last time I saw a chart of expectancy vs. random hand, I could have sworn 22 was less than 50%.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
The last time I saw a chart of expectancy vs. random hand, I could have sworn 22 was less than 50%.

[/ QUOTE ]

22o: 0.50334

You may have been thinking of Pwin%, which excludes split pots and will be lower.

eastbay