Getting Crushed By The Micro Limits

[banditdad]

I really don't know if I'm playing poorly or just getting nailed by the variance. Look at these 2 hands where I LOST and tell me what's up. Be brutally honest.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (7.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (7 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Button calls.

River: (10 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 15 BB

[bisonbison]

these are both fine.

[Sent]

If you lost both hands it just looks like bad luck, not so much bad play, because they look standard.

-Sent

[bdk3clash]

Why didn't you raise the river in the first hand?

[banditdad]

This was the first time MP1 had bet out so I suspected something might be amiss.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you raise the river in the first hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its all about the overcalls.

[banditdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you raise the river in the first hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its all about the overcalls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what this means.

[bisonbison]

Going for overcalls means forgoing raising in the hopes that worse hands behind you will call 1 bet instead of 2. It's a way to get more money into the pot at the expense of possibly getting a lot of money into the pot, and it's often a good idea if you'd hate to open it up to a 3-bet, like on the river in hand 1.

[Entity]

I think you played both just fine. You're just running bad -- I know the feeling. I'm down 120BB in the past week. Going down limits until I can build my bankroll back up.

[Nemesis]

They both look good really. Sucks if you lost them both.

[MrG]

I would bet your (weak)flush draw when the board pairs Q's and it is checked to me. You flop raise reprsented you had a Q and now you have three of them. If someone with a Q checkraises you still have the flush draw to pick up the pot. The pot is big so I would see if I could take it down right here(highly unlikely at these tables) but still possible. If turn Q helped someone who checkraises, so be it.

I would not raise the weak ace on the flop. Your kicker isn't that good and there are two hearts on the board. If the turn comes up a non-heart or otherwise improves your hand then I would raise the turn.

It seems everyone agrees with your play, so wondering why my plays would be wrong?

[MrG]

Just hoping someone can set me straight as I would have played these two hands differently than the poster and responders. Thanks.

[bisonbison]

Just hoping someone can set me straight as I would have played these two hands differently than the poster and responders. Thanks.

How so?

[Nemesis]

Hand 1 he's getting infinite odds to draw out on these people by taking the free card. They aren't gonna fold all he's doing is making himself pay to see the river. If he hits his draw he wins he doesn't have any outs to clean up by betting so he should take his free card.

Hand 2: You bring up a valid point... He doesn't have to worry about overcards to his A, the only thing he's worried about is hearts coming. Calling the flop and raising the turn is probably gonna make you more money in the long run. This isn't a slow play, but rather passing up one +EV situation for a MORE +EV situation. If his Ace is good on the flop then it will more than likely still be good on the turn where he can make real money off of it.

Hand 2

[The Armchair]

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is big so I would see if I could take it down right here(highly unlikely at these tables) but still possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's virtually nil. You're raising for a free card here as much as for information, so you should take it. You also aren't going to knock out the most dangerous hand -- the bigger flush draw.

[ QUOTE ]
I would not raise the weak ace on the flop. Your kicker isn't that good and there are two hearts on the board. If the turn comes up a non-heart or otherwise improves your hand then I would raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want to make flush draws pay to play here, and you want to raise for information. You don't want to raise the turn if you're up against AK!

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
Just hoping someone can set me straight as I would have played these two hands differently than the poster and responders. Thanks.

How so?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look to the message he was responding to... (cut/paste for convenience /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet your (weak)flush draw when the board pairs Q's and it is checked to me. You flop raise reprsented you had a Q and now you have three of them. If someone with a Q checkraises you still have the flush draw to pick up the pot. The pot is big so I would see if I could take it down right here(highly unlikely at these tables) but still possible. If turn Q helped someone who checkraises, so be it.

I would not raise the weak ace on the flop. Your kicker isn't that good and there are two hearts on the board. If the turn comes up a non-heart or otherwise improves your hand then I would raise the turn.

It seems everyone agrees with your play, so wondering why my plays would be wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet your (weak)flush draw when the board pairs Q's and it is checked to me. You flop raise reprsented you had a Q and now you have three of them. If someone with a Q checkraises you still have the flush draw to pick up the pot. The pot is big so I would see if I could take it down right here(highly unlikely at these tables) but still possible. If turn Q helped someone who checkraises, so be it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like trying to bluff 3 other plaerys off their hand. Its much much more likely you will be checkraised by a Q than take down the pot. Since you have to call the checkraise, I'd rather just take my free card.

[MrG]

So Hand 1 basically is you make the flush or you check/fold the river. It doesn't help to get anyone to fold because you want them there if you hit and you don't have a value bet because your pot equity is 25% but your chance of hitting the flush is only 16%. Thanks.

Hand 2
Charging the flush draws is really irrelevant as they have the odds to call one or two(in fact, they should be raising!)on the flop.
And the more I think about things, because of your position, raising on the turn would have to involve a check-raise which means no one would ever have to face cold calling two bets and again flushes would have the odds to call.
I didn't consider raising for information. I assume that you fold to a 3-bet on the flop thinking your ace is no good? Thanks for the responses.