Introduction and a few questions

[g_evans]

Hi everyone, I've been a lurker for a while here, and now have a few questions, so I figured i'd introduce myself at the same time.

I'm G, 19, from Australia. First became involved with poker when I was a child playing 5-card draw against family. At the beginning of this year I started playing online 7-card stud and then began to play texas hold'em as well in mid-march. I have only played with play money thus far, mostly fixed limit ring games.

I'm interested in playing for real money soon and also improving my understanding of both 7CS and HE. I can invest the time and a little money into this, so i'm willing to give it a good go and possibly take it beyond the realm of 'side hobbie'.

Ok with that out of the way, I have a few Questions ...

1. What is the goal I should be reaching for to start with?
(taking 'not losing' as a given)
Is the goal to build my bankroll to a set level (e.g. 300BB of the next limit) so I can move up in limits and until I can start playing to put money in my pocket. or
Is the goal to beat whatever limit I am playing at a certain rate (i.e. xBB/hour) before moving up in limits, to ensure I can 'beat the game' at varying levels of play and understanding?
(or is it something else entirely?)

2. If I am playing both stud and Hold'em do bankroll requirements change ?

3. I plan to play on 'stars - starting with $50 at the
$0.05/$0.10 hold'em and $0.04/$0.08 stud tables

This seems a sufficient amount to start with, is it ?
(I don't have hundreds of dollars to put into poker, being unemployed and not on any benefits or the dole)

4. Should I open a bank account solely for poker ?
My thoughts are that this would be useful.

5. Having read only online material, i'm looking at purchasing a few books, one on stud and one on hold'em.
I'd appreciate any opinions on what to choose from the following:
Stud: 7CS - West , Winning 7CS - Adams , or How to Beat Low Limit 7CS - Kammen
Hold'em: WLLH - Jones , SSH - Miller

I'm leaning towards Kammen's book and SSH.

Thanks everyone,
G.

[Mangatang]

Welcome G,

1. I think the best goal to start out with is to try and build a bankroll from the very small limits, like you said. Starting out at the micro limits while you're learning is very smart.

2. I don't know about stud, but I imagine that the bankroll requirements would be the same, 300 big bets.

3. Stars has the best software, but the toughest games. My recommendation for starting out is Pacific Poker. Pacific has the softest games of any site. They have a great selection of micro limits (.05/.10, .10/.20, .25/.50, .5/1.) This allows you to work your way up the limits in a progressive fashion. Pacific also allows a minimum deposit of $20. (That's actually how I started out, with a $20 deposit playing the .05/.10. 10 months later, I'm now playing the $10/20 with a $7000 bankroll).

You can start out with a $50 bankroll on Pacific by depositing only $20 if you go to www.888.com/bonus (http://www.888.com/bonus) and enter the bonus code JUGGLE25

4. If you have a checking account, all you need to do is open a Neteller account. It is very convenient and it's free.

5. Again, I don't know about stud, but Lee Jones' Winning Low Limit Holdem is definitely the best book to read first. I'm following his advice almost exactly, and I'm still winning at the $10/20 level.

If you're interested in checking out some of my online advice, I've created a "step-by-step" plan to becoming a winning poker player on my site: www.KingsCascade.com (http://www.KingsCascade.com) It's a good list of instructions for the beginner to follow when learning.

Good luck.

[Greg J]

I only thing I would add to what Mang said would be to post hands on the micro forum for scrutiny. His advise he has on his site is pretty good in my opinion.

Lee Jones's book is a good one, but as you get more serious it's essential to get the advanced books by Sklansky, Malmuth, Miller, and if you play stud Zee.

50$ is more than enough to start. PS nanolimit games are tougher than other places. Paradise has supersoft nanolimit games for hold em, and Mang mentioned Pacific. However, if you take the game seriously you can still win at the PS nanolimits -- they are not what I would call tough by any means, just not as Snuggle bear soft as Paradise.

Oh, and have fun!

Welcome to the boards -- hope to see you on the micro forum where I can help dissect your hands. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Greg

[JasonP530]

I second everything that has been said. I would get West's book for 7 cards stud. It is simple and concise, but very complete. I know it is for beginning players, and I am unsure about the others. West writes a column for cardplayer magazine, so go check out some of his columns and see if you like his approach and writing style.

[g_evans]

Thanks for the info. I haven't looked at many other sites so I'll definitely check out ones you mentioned. I've decided on getting both WLLH and SSH to focus on improving my hold'em game for now.

One more thing, is it possible to sign up for a play money account at these sites, to test them out, then later when depositing money, still get a bonus or sign under an affiliate?

G.

[Mangatang]

Yes, you can sign up and play free money until you're ready to make a deposit. If you want the bonus though, make sure you use the link & bonus code when you first install the software (don't go directly to the poker site itself). The bonus will be given to you when you make your first real money deposit.

[donkeyradish]

I offer these snippents of advice

The way to win at real money tables is nothing like the way to win at play money tables.

Also don't expect to win every time you play, even if you play expertly. Nobody wins every time they play.

Finally observe your opponents. If you can't tell who the worst player at a table is within ten minutes, then its you! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[g_evans]

Want to test out quoting, here goes...

[ QUOTE ]
I offer these snippents of advice

The way to win at real money tables is nothing like the way to win at play money tables.


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know about that at the nano limits, looking at a bit of the play there, it seems to be played similarly to some play money games. I guess I'll see when I begin real money play soon. I'm sure I can adapt my play to it easily though.

[ QUOTE ]

Also don't expect to win every time you play, even if you play expertly. Nobody wins every time they play.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, I learnt this when punting on thoroughbreds. So I know a little about expected value and advantage plays.

[ QUOTE ]

Finally observe your opponents. If you can't tell who the worst player at a table is within ten minutes, then its you! /images/graemlins/smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
I'll be selective with my tables, so hopefully if this does happen I'll be able to notice quickly that I can't do well at that table.

G.

[donkeyradish]

Well the big difference at the play money tables is that you can rarely put anyone on an actual hand because not everyone cares whether they win or lose.

A prefop raise, at a play money table is rarely respected, in fact each betting round is often capped. So you need to wait for a very strong hand to play that does well against multiple 'random' hands (but when you get them you always win a huge pot). You don't need to observe so much what other players are doing.

Real money tables aren't anything like this. Most people are trying to make a profit, and most people also play predictably. You need to respect what others do a great deal more, & solely waiting for monster hands may actually be unprofitable (because the pots you win won't always be big enough to justify the waiting).