Too weak with bread and butter hand?

[SofaCoach]

Sometimes I think I slow down too quick with my good, but not monster, hands. When faced with a checkraise I often just call guys down with TPTK or similar hands. Should I have pushed this one a little harder?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[jmark]

Well it really smells like 2-pair here for SB, maybe AsTs? I would 3-bet the flop though and see what happens. Hopefully he was monkeying around or had A4.

[Brian]

Yes. Raise the Turn.

-Brian

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I think I slow down too quick with my good, but not monster, hands. When faced with a checkraise I often just call guys down with TPTK or similar hands. Should I have pushed this one a little harder?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd 3-bet the flop also. If he caps it, then you might have a problem here... You never really know where you stand in this hand. He may have middle pair here and could be putting you to the test. I feel out the field with a flop raise all the time when overcards hit. Your call might be telling him you're on a draw or have something small. A 3-bet puts HIM to the test.. A better test than the one he just gave you. Calling a 3-bet or capping is a MUCH bolder move than a single bet or calling the first raise. A call would make me cautious, and a cap would make me very leary of continuing this hand. If I thought the player was good I'd fold immdeiately. If he calls he gets credit for an ace. If he caps, he gets credit for more, and if he folds, then that's fine with me..

It's a lot better to put out an extra flop bet and get a better handle on your scenario than it is to call down to showdown for 2 more BB's with top pair and no info..

When the turn 6 drops, that's a whole separate mess, now you can start over and try to figure out what his flop raise meant.

[SofaCoach]

Yes, according to all that I've learned here over the past few months I should have 3-bet the flop. I agree that would have got me alot more information.

But then the question becomes what do I do with this info. If he just calls,I am still cautious but continue to bet my hand. But if capped? This is a very good board for my AQ...there is no flush or straight possible at this point and the board is not paired. The cap may very well mean a set or 2 pair but I still don't think I could fold here at these limits. I think I'd call him down.

So if he folds it costs me money when I have the better hand. If he calls me down from here with a weaker hand I picked up one extra SB with my 3-bet. And if he caps with a better hand and I call down it costs me 2 extra SB's.

Still not sure if that's the way to go.

[k000k]

What to do depends on your opinion of the opponent. That's a good flop for you, no doubt about it.. That doesn't mean it's not vulnerable though.. Look what happened, by the end of this hand there's a paired board, there's a flush out there, etc..

I'd probably call the cap and fold the turn unimproved.. If he checks me on the turn I might bet and fold to the checkraise. If I knew the player was good, I'd fold to a cap. I wouldn't be confident that TP is gonna hold up. You could be lookin at 44, 66, AK, A4, A6, even 64o at these limits... If you're gonna 'ask', then you have to respect the 'answer', otherwise it does no good to ask..

[James Boston]

What? Let's review: 1) Hero flops top pair/ second-best kicker 2) He get's raised once, and then goes into check-call mode 3) Therefore his opponent flopped 2-pair or had ATs????? Please elaborate.

[jmark]

What? Let's review: 1) Hero flops top pair/ second-best kicker 2) He get's raised once, and then goes into check-call mode 3) Therefore his opponent flopped 2-pair or had ATs????? Please elaborate.

What? Let's review:

1) Hero raises preflop, SB calls
2) Hero flops an Ace and gets checkraised

I see this happen alot when the SB has two-pair or a big flush draw. I said he should 3-bet the flop. What do you want me to elaborate on?

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
I see this happen alot when the SB has two-pair or a big flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

First the two pair: This is possible, but I wouldn't say it "smells like two pair." I would think a cold-call might mean a small pocket pair, like 44 or 66 maybe, not 46, A6, or A4. (well, A4 &amp; A6 makes sense) I also don't disagree that he could very likely be on the flush draw, but how you decided it was specifically ATs, I don't know.

[jmark]

[ QUOTE ]
but how you decided it was specifically ATs, I don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of an ace he could have that he would check raise with on the flop when he hit top pair but wouldn't 3-bet with preflop. I basically pulled it out of my ass.

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
I basically pulled it out of my ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine, and I do see your point, but when I'm trying to legitimately put someone on a hand, my ass is a last resort.

[jmark]

[ QUOTE ]
but when I'm trying to legitimately put someone on a hand, my ass is a last resort.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that's why my hand reading ability is for sh1t.

[SofaCoach]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but when I'm trying to legitimately put someone on a hand, my ass is a last resort.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that's why my hand reading ability is for sh1t.

[/ QUOTE ]
These comments cracked me up. But your hand reading skills ain't that bad jmark. villian had AT (although not suited) and MHIG.

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
But your hand reading skills ain't that bad jmark. villian had AT

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker enema here I come. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SofaCoach]

[ QUOTE ]
... If you're gonna 'ask', then you have to respect the 'answer', otherwise it does no good to ask..

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, this is what it comes down to. And I guess I'm saying that at these limits, against an unknown opponent, with that board and my hand, I wouldn't have folded to a cap. Thats why I "didn't ask".

[jmark]

[ QUOTE ]
... If you're gonna 'ask', then you have to respect the 'answer', otherwise it does no good to ask..

Yep, this is what it comes down to. And I guess I'm saying that at these limits, against an unknown opponent, with that board and my hand, I wouldn't have folded to a cap. Thats why I "didn't ask".

[/ QUOTE ]

At these limits I never think of raising in terms of raising for information. I only think of it in terms of raising for value. The thing is this guy probably thought he had the best hand with AT and would have capped it, giving you the wrong information. Also they always seem to like to cap with flush draws headsup for some reason.

Always raise for value.
I'll have to pat myself on the ass for my hand reading abilities.

[jmark]

[ QUOTE ]
But your hand reading skills ain't that bad jmark. villian had AT


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Poker enema here I come.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your ass never lets you down.