Most Advanced book I can purchase?!

[vandalay]

What would you suggest. I need something more complex than Slanasky's tournament poker for advanced players. If it takes 3 years of college calculus to understand, Im ok with that.

I would like the rules of thumb and other things of WHY some of the top players have PhD's in math. I am confident that I can at least understand what they are saying.

Topics I would like in the book
- EV if I hit my open ended strait after the flop to someone I think has AK/AQ or mid pair... How much should I call, or be willing to call. I know my open ender is a 31.45 percent chance of hitting, thus with the EV of doubling up, a 80 call into a 100 pot isn't that bad of a deal (OVER time = infinity)
- Same thing, but I have AsJs with Jc10s2s hits the board. At what point am I betting too much or too little. Of course, I know I have OUTS, even if he has a set, and If I hit the flush, he still has outs with his set. I would like the math behind it, and how much to really bet in these instances and maybe even when to lay a hand down.
- Im good enough (doubtful for myself), to put someone on AK or over pair, how to play the game, with my 99.


Thanks... and if there is no book anyone can really suggest, then I guess Ill just keep reading twoplustwo.com

- VI

[fnord_too]

Well, if you want a good graduate level game theory book, "Game Theory" by Fudenberg and Tirole is supposed to be the best. (It's on my shelf, but I have not read it yet.)

Edit

This is not a book on tournament poker per se, but covers a much broader topic which you can apply to tournament poker. I only reccomend it because I don't think you are going to find any books on tournament poker that are written at a more rigorous level than TPFAP, so the only option I see is learning game theory and wokring some things out yourself. Also, this assumes you are more interested in the mathmatical side than the psycological side.

[jon_1van]

The questions you ask are going to require very specific assumptions about your opponents. So it will probably be hard ti find exact answers.

[SpiderMnkE]

I'm sorry you have to might have to settle for just reading this crappy forum. Nothing of value ever comes out of it... but you can keep digging.

And never read the Mid-High Stakes forum.. the concepts talked about over there are childish at best.

[tripdad]

if you can understand a book that requires 3 years of college calculus to understand, i'm certain you could team with someone adept at writing and conquer this beast yourself. after all, the greatest tournament poker player of all time was a crack head.

cheers!

[TheGrifter]

[ QUOTE ]
after all, the greatest tournament poker player of all time was a crack head.


[/ QUOTE ]

Annie Duke?

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
after all, the greatest tournament poker player of all time was a crack head.


[/ QUOTE ]

Annie Duke?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, Stu Unger.

[SossMan]

after all, the greatest tournament poker player of all time was a crack head.

I'm not a crackhead /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Jason Strasser]

Hey Monkeyface,

You suck,

xoxo,
-Jason

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
after all, the greatest tournament poker player of all time was a crack head.


[/ QUOTE ]

Annie Duke?

[/ QUOTE ]

are you asking if she's a crackhead, or if she's the greatest?

question 1: she looks like she may have been roughed up a time or two. as to whether that was caused indirectly by a drug habit, i do not know, sir.

question 2: lol

cheers!

[cferejohn]

I'm assuming you've read Theory of Poker? If you haven't, then do. It doesn't deal with tournaments per se, but if you accept the theory that, by and large, Chip EV = Cash EV, the principles in that book are very solid.

[vandalay]

I will try out the theory which I thank you for. I was thinking of other examples in which I would like more input on.

Something like, you 3X preflop raise with 78s and get 2 callers. Flop is j77. Yes, whoever your playing does have outs, even if he has his Jack, but you do what to get something more out of him, even with the chance of losing the pot thats already in there.

A pot sized raise might say I have overpair and the AJ would fold, but I want the AJ in the pot. What is the proper bet to keep him in without costing ME money since a runner runner flush or runner runner strait COULD beat me.

Thanks again and any more comments I appreciate.

-VI

[woodguy]

The perfect HE book would eithe be 198,000 pages long for every flop and action for every hand.

or,

I would be 1 page long, with the following:

It depends

These forums seek the "final" answer of many questions, but none of it can be summed up in one post, or book. (Although, I am looking forward to Dan Harrington's tourney book, and word on the street has it that Ed Miller's new book is very good)

That's why reading, and more importantly, working to
understand these threads is very good for your poker game.

Surf around here, it the closest thing to "the book of HE poker" that is available.

(except: it depends)

regards,
woodguy

[vandalay]

Woodguy,
Im not arguing with you 1 bit. I was just hopeing for a MORE advanced book than slanskys tourney poker for advanced players.

His books are good, I am just looking for the graduate level book over poker 101 or poker 301...

know what I mean!!

thanks,
-VI

[woodguy]

To my knowledge, it doesn't exist.
I think experience is probably the best teacher after you have digested what is available.
From what I hear Dan Harrington's book is going to be more of what you (and the rest of us) are looking for.

regards,
woodguy

[SpiderMnkE]

Hey Strassface,

troo dat

xoxo

-Monkey

[gergery]

Ciaffone's "Middle Limit Holdem" is not too far off from what you are looking for. It has 400 examples of different situations (3-flush flops, overpairs, etc.) with a detailed paragraph on what the recommended action is and why. It's for Limit, but I've found the principles of evaluating the positon to work just as well for NL.

As to specific examples you mention, poker is far too complex to simplify it down like you want. I'd try keep asking your self the basic quesitons: What is he likely to have? If he has that, what should i bet so he makes a mistake? etc.

--Greg