If you are promised a kickback and...

[josie_wales]

...they dont pay.

Is there any excuse that is acceptable?

jw

[TxSteve]

No

I don't think there is any acceptable reason for not paying.

If they are forced to delay a day or two for some sort of reason...that's fine, i think.

But, otherwise....if they are NOT paying...they are ripping you off, breaking your agreement.

Txsteve

[Thythe]

[ QUOTE ]
...they dont pay.

Is there any excuse that is acceptable?

jw

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately there's not much you can do either. Kickbacks are against the terms and conditions of Party Poker et al, so you can't really tell them.

[josie_wales]

Well,

He basically is saying that he has not gotten paid by the casinos.

To me , that is irrelevant.

I am sure he has made plenty as an affiliate, I feel that it is *his* problem, not mine that he is not getting paid.

His aggreement with me was to pay me.

Its up to him how he comes up wth the money.

josie wales

[TxSteve]

Ahh,

Was it a smaller or new-ish type casino?

He should be pestering the hell out of them to get his money. All of the "reputable" sites (empire/party etc), have clear guidelines about when they will pay the affiliates.

I have experienced some slight delays (3-4 days) before...but was able to get my money pretty quickly.

Sounds like maybe your affiliate was just signing people up without really understanding the whole situation.

steve

[kiemo]

is this by chance referring to

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=844406&Forum=A ll_Forums&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=844406 &Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=3687&daterange=1&n ewerval=1&newertype=w&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post844406

[TxSteve]

well,

upon reading that thread..if that is the situation you are talking about, it sounds like lunchmeat is giving a lot of information.

It also sounds like he/she is saying you WILL be paid. So it sounds like there is just a delay there.

If that situation does not involve you...@ignore this

[Thythe]

Hmmm, try not to post links in this format as it makes the thread unbearable to read. Also, the way casino kickbacks work, is if the casino pays, then you get paid. This is how lunchmeat's site has always worked. So many things can go wrong, and casinos often try to back out of the agreements, so it would be ridiculous for him to ALWAYS pay even if he didn't get paid. He would end up losing money.

[josie_wales]

It has NOT been 4 days.

I has been alomost 1 month.

And I think his plan is to NOT pay unless he can get the money from the casinos.

My question was jsut basically in the end, if you sign up through someone as a result of an offer. Should they honor that offer?

Or are there some acceptable excuses?

jw

[josie_wales]

Gotcha Tyhthe,

That is what I was looking for. To see *who* people thought should be the one that loses out.

The 'promiser' or the 'promisee'

You make some interesting points.

jw

[Spartacus]

That is not the right question. Did you sign up through him BECAUSE of the offer or did you just use his link to get a kickback? I imagine most whores just used his links to get a little extra from places they were going hit up anyway.

I don't think you can blame him if the casino refuses to pay. Hopefully you made money anyway.

In a casino, do you gamble at the tables just to get comped? No, you gamble because you want to and the comps are just a bonus. Sometimes the casino refuses to comp you even though you think you are entitled. What can you do?

[Redmen62]

FWIW, Josie I'm in the same position you are. I happen to believe that lunchmeat is a standup guy, and I personally do not expect him to compensate out of his own pocket if CON does not pay.

I think it is obvious to most people when signing up through links such as his that there is some chance that the casino will not pay the affiliate, and that that there will be no money to kickback. However, I believe that lunchmeat is now responsible for doing everything in his power to get the money owed to him by CON, and make the kickbacks. I also think he was somewhat negligent in not making it clear on his site that something like this could happen, leaving people without money they had been counting on (especially since there had been severe delays in getting payments from casinos before).

I am just as unhappy with the situation as you, Josie, and I expect that lunchmeat will make every effort to get the money owed to him and us. In the event that does not happen, however, I will unhappily eat the "loss".

[Yeknom58]

Seriously what did you expect. There is nothing you can do. He SHOULD pay you but there is nothing legal about this agreement so if he gives you the shaft tough luck. Your only recourse is to badmouth him or threaten to badmouth him until you get paid.

[Thythe]

I don't even think you read the thread yeknom

[Wayne]

[ QUOTE ]

That is what I was looking for. To see *who* people thought should be the one that loses out.

The 'promiser' or the 'promisee'


[/ QUOTE ]

In this instance, both of you are losing out. He isn't getting his referral from the casino, and you are not getting a cut from his referral. I'd never expect him to go into his own pocket, increasing his loss, to make you good.

[lunchmeat]

Thank you for your vote of confidence, and I can assure you that I am doing all that I can.

If I had to do it all over again, I would put some fine print (or perhaps large print) on the site more fully explaining the nature of the kickbacks and the potential problems associated with them. I made a couple posts on 2+2 about the potential problems that go along with kickbacks, and whenever someone asked me I always gave them a straight answer that there is a possibility that something might go wrong. Nevertheless, I should have put the same sort of disclaimer on my site, and I aplogize for not doing so.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your vote of confidence, and I can assure you that I am doing all that I can.

If I had to do it all over again, I would put some fine print (or perhaps large print) on the site more fully explaining the nature of the kickbacks and the potential problems associated with them. I made a couple posts on 2+2 about the potential problems that go along with kickbacks, and whenever someone asked me I always gave them a straight answer that there is a possibility that something might go wrong. Nevertheless, I should have put the same sort of disclaimer on my site, and I aplogize for not doing so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this and although I've always tried to remember to tell my affiliates before they sign up through me that I will not pay them until I get paid, there may have been insistances I've forgotten to do so and I'm wondering whether I need to send emails to all of mine and verify they are aware of this small, minute risk (given that my only affiliation program is Empire).

[lunchmeat]

Josie,

I know you are awaiting payment along with others. The good news is that the money from the group of 3 casinos I was having trouhle with (that subsequently banned me) has arrived in my bank account. I will make begin making payments immediately following this post.

I do think there is a misunderstanding about the whole kickback system, though. A kickback is the return of a part of a sum received by one party to another party (that's straight from the dictionary). This is very different from a deposit bonus where you are given the money as soon as you sign up at a casino or poker site. So, in a kickback system, if I am paid nothing there's nothing to be kicked back.

Of course, I am doing all that I can to get paid. I was quite pleased that I was able to get a payment from the group of 3 casinos, and there is still hope with the lone hold-out.

Anyone with questions can contact me here by PM or email me at advantageplayeradvisor@yahoo.com

BTW, if you read this Pete O. I have been trying to send you an email, but the message keeps getting bounced back as undeliverable. If you send me a PM I can reply to you here.

[lunchmeat]

I don't think you have to worry as much because the poker sites don't really care about what you do with your money once you get it.

Casinos are a special situation because the players who receive kickbacks are costing the casino money, whereas the players who receive rake-rebate kickbacks for a poker site are making the poker site money.

Sending your players an email can't hurt, but I don't think it's really necessary in your case.

[TrickyTree]

I think there is a moral here or at least a lesson to be learned. If you are party of a kickback or rake rebate scheme dont go through a third party. I know that this is often difficult but its always best to deal with the casino/site themselves or someone who is directly related and responsible to them. This way you stand a far greater chance of getting any money owed to you. At least you know where to complain then.

Its not fair to expect an individual to pay out money that they themselves have not recieved. But it shows you one thing dont become a middle man for casino traffic. You always end up with the blame.

[serling]

I've signed up to several sites through lunchmeat's links. Not getting a poker rakeback would be a different matter, but for these casino kickbacks I went into it not expecting anything and considered if I received anything from him, it would be a bonus. I was planning on playing those sites anyway; I could have signed up on my own for nothing or signed up through someone else for a small potential of something.

I also played above and beyond the wage requirements and played much more than strictly blackjack to not draw any attention to advantage play. And long after the WR was completed, I still play at several of those sites.

I found him friendly and upfront with any delay, and in the end I always ended up getting paid (even if it took two months).

I'm very sorry to see his site go and do not agree he should be liable if the casinos don't pay him.

serling

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
...they dont pay.

Is there any excuse that is acceptable?

jw

[/ QUOTE ]

If a solid affiliate promises you "an $X kickback" for signing up through him, then you should be paid whether he gets paid for your signup or not. What the affiliate should do is say that you get a certain percentage, then if he gets nothing (which is not rare, btw, as these affiliate programs are sleazy) you get nothing. For example, if he is offering $75 for signing up at CoN, he should phrase it as "a 50% kickback". That way, if he gets paid you get $75, and if he doesn't get paid you get nothing.

-- Homer