Crying Call or Fold?

[Vern]

I only had a dozen or so hands with the BB, but he struck me as rather loose and passive. The table as a whole was very passive which is the only reason I limped in with such a small pair with only one caller.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed)
Props to Bison for his converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (4 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="red">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="red">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (9 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="red">BB bets</font>, Hero does what?

I have what appears to be a passive player leading each street even after I raised flop &amp; turn. The pot is 10BB, so to make this crying call I have to be right 10% of the time so do I call or do I fold and move on to the next hand.

Thanks for any comments and as always, criticism of any part of the hand leading up to the river decision is more than welcome.

Vern

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I have what appears to be a passive player leading each street even after I raised flop &amp; turn. The pot is 10BB, so to make this crying call I have to be right 10% of the time so do I call or do I fold and move on to the next hand.


[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me like you just answered your own question. Trust your read.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (4 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="red">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="red">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

You probably ARE good 10%, I'd call it.... After the turn A drops, you raise and he doesn't re-raise you.. I dont think there's an ace in his hand... If he was holding a J, he should fold if he has ANY common sense. If I'm him, I think you have an ace. If he's on a flush draw he shouldn't be betting the turn.. I dunno what this guy is doing.. If he's ahead here, he sucks.. If he's behind, he sucks.. I call the river but I don't feel good about it.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
After the turn A drops, you raise and he doesn't re-raise you.. I dont think there's an ace in his hand... If he was holding a J, he should fold if he has ANY common sense. If I'm him, I think you have an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's a typical loose passive micro player. He does not 3-bet with an ace. He does not fold a J. He does not lead with a flush draw and then bluff the river (PASSIVE). He does not have ANY common sense, at least not pertaining to poker. I don't see any way hero wins this 10% unless he is incorrect on his read.

[Vern]

[ QUOTE ]

You probably ARE good 10%, I'd call it.... After the turn A drops, you raise and he doesn't re-raise you.. I dont think there's an ace in his hand... If he was holding a J, he should fold if he has ANY common sense. If I'm him, I think you have an ace. If he's on a flush draw he shouldn't be betting the turn.. I dunno what this guy is doing.. If he's ahead here, he sucks.. If he's behind, he sucks.. I call the river but I don't feel good about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looked very much to me how a BB might play a weak ace he got to see the flop for free. He would have top pair no kicker on the flop so he might lead out but I scare him with the raise. He then makes trips on the turn and might be putting me on a free card play with a flush draw on board so he bets. When I raise him, he stops because the kicker issues scares him again. When he makes a full house on the river he bets since the worst that is likely is a tie as his kicker would no longer matter. This may sound like overthinking it, but I think I can safely eliminate the jack much easier than a ragged ace play since a loose player might lead into an unraised pot with middle pair to try and drop weak aces, but the raise and second ace means a lone jack is not gonna lead out on the turn. At least this was the type of thinking 2+2 forums and Ed's book have me engaged in as the clock counts down my decision time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[tardigrade]

I agree ... you're 1% to win this one. A passive player with the ace on the flop just calls your raise because he thinks ... maybe he's got two pair or trips. He gets trips on the turn and bets out again. You raise and he thinks ... maybe my kicker isn't good. He gets a full house on the river and bets again. Stop and go the whole way.

If he wasn't in the BB, there might be some value in seeing what he played. If your read is accurate, then a fold is good here.

[Sent]

Yeah I don't think your hand is good here 1 in 10. Foldy! hehe

-Sent

[Vern]

I folded, and I would do it again in similar circumstances, but this guy flashed the K/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif after I folded. I did resist the urge to tilt long enough for the blinds to reach me, then I quietly sat out a round and took a break. Came back and did fine. This forum really helps you realize you can only make the perfect plays if you have more information than you are entitled too. Thanks for all the responses.

Vern

[Sent]

Wow I just read this post again as if I had never seen it before (newly highlighted) and I was thinking, "time for a crying call!" But then I see I said to fold, weird.

-Sent