Confessions of a losing poker player (long)

Lost four racks tonight. Many bad beats that nobody cares to hear about. Many chips burned by yours truly. A couple misplayed hands, and some just flat disgusting beats. See set over set over set below.


I lost KK to 25o WHO LIMPED!! I lost AA to T9c on a J 6 2 rainbow flop.


And I know that there is money to be made. Not by me. I'm not a winning player.


I just wrote that last sentence, didn't I? I'm not a winning player. That's step one in the 12 step program I'm going to develop. I'm not a winning player. This means that I'm a losing player. That right now, walking into a casino is -ev. I'm a losing player.


And it's because I choose, subconsciouly, to be. Read the post by slider below in my "where was the pistol whip?" post. He hit the nail on the head, unfortunately.


The problem, in every single facet of the game, comes down to pride.


As many of you know, I just started playing poker in November of 2000. I'm young, just 23, and I act half my age most of the time. I used to love hearing compliments at the table, when people would ask me if I was a pro, how much I made, etc. I had a 'big-laydown' fetish...I wanted people to oooh and aaah. Peole would ask me how old I was, and how long I had been playing for. I would tell them the truth, and at the time when these conversations were happening, it was about 4 to 6 months. Then people would call me liars. They'd say nobody would be able to have a decent grasp of the game that quickly.


Well, I wasn't lying, and I didn't have a decent grasp of the game. I had no fundamentals. Then, I met Joseph. Joseph is now a very very good friend, whom I met at commerce, playing 9-18. He's taught me a few things about poker. He taught me the 'free-card raise', and through watching him, I've learned how bad berating bad players is for the game. I've learned how stupid it is to try to teach others, and how stupid it is to berate them. I've seen him get into a fistfight at a poker table, where he may be in a coma if I hadn't stepped in.


And then I met Mike and Tony and Brian and Todd and Mark and Big Mike, and Little Joe and Scott, and other players of varying degrees of skill.


And the better players (Big Mike, Brian, Scott, Little Joe) all knew that I was a student, I'd freely tell them that. I would ask for opinions, and I'd listen to their advice. I was fairly humble.


And we'd get together and play cards, or some of us would go out to dinner, or to a baseball game together. It was great. We were good friends. And Joseph and I started to act like brothers. We nit pick and bicker, and always have each others back. I was the reason he smoked his last cigarette, on September 11th. Long story. Not here.


And Joseph would tell the other guys about how he saw greatness in me. And the pride swelled in me, just like when people would call me a liar for saying I had only been playing for 6 months. Joseph would say how he'd take even money on me winning a bracelet within five years, how he'd stake me at whatever he could afford when I'm on my 'A' game.


And I went on a tear in September...I took the biggest financial bad beat of my life when I lost AK to A7 against Paul Ladanyi in the Legends of Poker, $300 buyin with rebuys limit holdem tourny...flop came A J 7, turn A, river 4. I was chip leader, Paul was second. He doubled up through me. He finished First, I finished 3rd.


Then I won whatever I played. Tournies, ring games, Omaha, Holdem, you name it. I was on a roll. I was really close to buying a new Mercedes. Seriously.


And I was good. I was really good. I'm not just saying that. I went through a time when I could read players like nobody's business. I started to play Omaha more, just to add another notch to my belt. I was placing in every tourny I played, NL, PL, limit, you name it. Not many firsts, but a couple small ones. My confidence was soaring, or so I thought.


In reality, my ego was soaring. I was just getting hit in the head with the deck. Make no mistake about it, I was a much better player then than I am now. By far. I feared nobody, and I'd sit with anybody. Still, I usually played with friends, but if they weren't around, I'd play in any game. I started to play 40-80 on occasion, and that was cool.


Mike l., if you are reading this, here is a side note to you. You seem to me to be about exactly where I was in september and october. You are having the success that I was having. I'm a huge fan of yours, and I wish you the very best. Just realize that if you don't keep improving and studying the game and confess to be a student, it can all come crashing down. Bad cards are tough to overcome, and I hope you never end up where I am now. Good luck.


Back to the confessions. I got some big ol' ego problems. I knew that I was better than damn near everybody else. I knew that I could just run over them. I was wrong. I started to become hyper aggressive. I introduced huge variance into my game. Slider nailed it. I tried to outplay calling stations, because I 'knew' I was better than them.


And it got worse and worse and worse. My ego kept getting fed. I remember telling Sooga to be more aggressive. He said he couldn't because he didn't want to absorb the losses. I told him he would actually do better by being more aggressive. I remember this distinctly. I asked him "other than the aggressiveness, is there any real difference between your game and mine?". He said "yeah, you are a much better hand reader than me. I can't even compare.". He really stroked my ego. People like Brian and Big Mike continually said they thought I was a solid player. These were guys who I was hoping to have the respect of in 3 or 4 years, not 1 or 2 months.


mike l. posted a post regarding tourny players, saying how he didn't think they deserved much adulation, that the real poker players were the guys grinding it out. He said something like "my heroes are the Mason's, Tommys, and GummyWorms of the world". I started showing that post to friends.


people on this forum were telling me that they'd never like to play with me.


And if i just went about my business on this forum, never making any of these "confession"s posts, I'd still get those posts, I think. Because I could still talk a good game, but I couldn't play a good game anymore.


I lost discipline. It's way gone. I still have the ego of a 23 year old.


A lot was made in my "general observations of mid limit players" post about books. I stated that I had never read a book. That is true, but for all the wrong reasons.


Don't get me wrong. Everything I said in that post still holds true. I don't think I'll learn much from reading the books. I KNOW what to do, almost always. I just do the wrong thing. But the fact is, and I was denying this, that I wanted to become great without ever reading a book. What a stupid goal to have. I really to be able to tell people that I had never read a poker book, just like I would tell them that I had only been playing for 6 months. The disbelief in their eyes would be worth a ton.


What unbelievable stupid reasoning. Stupid. I may not agree with all of the advice, but it is just plain stupid to not read the books. Stupid. Dumb. Egotistically stubborn and stupid.


So at the end of the day, this is what I'm left with. If I were to design a game that focuses around all of my natural strengths and abilities, it would be poker. Period. Probably limit hold em, maybe limit omaha or stud. Not no limit or potlimit, because I'm not fearless. But I am incredibly logical, have a photographic memory, very perceptive, very patient, and in general, very disciplined.


There are two major personal problems in my life that I honestly think may be affecting my discipline. They'll be remedied soon.


But equally important, my status of never having read a poker book will also be remedied soon. Sooga, you aren't getting HPFAP back until I read it. Sorry. Kinda.


So that's that. I'm spending April reading books, starting with HPFAP then going to TOP, hopefully. And if I don't have the discipline to wait one month to play poker, then i don't have the discipline to play poker. I will not be playing poker before May 1, 2002.


But I'm going to do it right this time. I'm going to have a good foundation...solid fundamentals, a cleared head, and no external distractions. I'm 23. I don't need to accomplish all of my poker goals this year, right? Right.


Unlike a month ago, when I "retired", I really mean it this time, as unbelievable as that sounds. THis means the home game is postponed from April 13th. This means I'm not playing poker in April, at all. I'm going to be reading. Man, I hate reading.


But here's the thing. I have a lot of potential, and right now, it is completely unrealized. I realize that now (tee-hee). Everybody out there who thinks I'm a good poker player is wrong. For now.


I appreciate all the recent tongue-lashing and advice. I'm a kid. A young, arrogant student who needs no sugar coating. Just some good, healthy medicine. Thanks.


Josh

Well that's quite a story. I would think one step on your road to "recovery" if that's what you would call it has already been taken.


You have been through a lot in such a short time. This is amplified by your very young age. Don't berate yourself so much. You obviously have some good skills with unlimited potential.


There is however a "constant" that winds through your thread that speaks loudly. That is you crave (like we all do) recognition. This of course is a human desire that overrides a whole lot of other things. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, we all like to think that what we do with our life is recognized, even appreciated, even admired by others. Trouble is we might begin to run our life in such a way as to exclude a whole lot of important things that might not garner that recognition so easily.


Never reading a poker book, been playing only 6 months and still dragging down big wins from a 40 -80 table! That will get people to notice you!


I think you might begin to get the picture.


What is it that you are really after here. Recognition? Money? Companionship? All of these? Other things? Just remember that what you strive for you will usually get, sometimes its not what we really wanted or it has other consequences or rewards we didn't anticipate.


You sound like a thoughtful person. Use that thoughtfulness to take a hard look at what you are really after and then decide if that's what you really want, focusing especially on what comes along "with the objective" you have in mind.


Take care, you have a long life ahead of you and a great poker career if that is what you choose.


I wish you well.


Benevolently,


Yvonne

Well you need to have pride in your game IMO so the ego problems maybe arent' as bad as you might think. It seems to me that you have possibly been "gambling" (thus taking the worst of it too often) a little too much and perhaps not being patient enough. IMO these are very fixable problems.

Gummy, that last post made you my hero. The post and none of the other stuff. I am 20 myself and have experienced much of the same stuff as you, so am not that impressed by your poker achievements. ;-)


This post however will stick with me for a long time! Well said man, put words to a lot of my feelings.


Lars

In your confessional, you write:


"I don't think I'll learn much from reading the books. I KNOW what to do, almost always. I just do the wrong thing."


Seems you still have that ego problem.


One day at a time. Keep it simple. Let go and let God. Keep coming back. It works if you work it.


Uh, don't take any wooden nickels.

Well, it´s good to see that you are honest enough to yourself to realize the error of your ways ;-), there are probably many who would have lost more.


The advice of another 23-year old player (=myself): leave your ego out of the game and show somewhat more humility in the future.

Like most of us, you had a bit of a hot streak when you started out. That's why you kept playing. If you lost every time in the beginning, you probably wouldn't have stuck with it. Relax. You have lots of time to turn it around.


As for Paul, now you know why we put an extra chair at the table when he walks by. He's a prime example of someone who is successful at tournaments, but not at ring games. A real nice guy. Glad you got to know him.


I'm going to steal something from your post. The next time I'm asked how long I have played, I'm going to say Six Months!

i think we all feel a little this way when we hit that bad streak that's been lurking, waiting in the shadows. i know ive ehoed the sentiments you put forth. ya start questioning just how good ya are since ya just blew off much of your roll to 'idiots' on the table.


using that energy to retune your game is a great idea.


it didnt kill ya, so youll be back stronger.


and when ya come back after this...


i wouldnt want ya at my table /images/smile.gif


take care...


b

Honestly, this is the first post of yours, Gummyworm, that I have ever read. I think it's because GummyWorm sounds so childish to me. Your post goes a long way in confirming my first impression.


One piece of unasked for advice. Learn to "love to read". Not for the sake of being a better poker player. That would be down right silly. No, learn to love reading because some day it just might be the only thing you'll have.


Vince

Gummy,


"I still have the ego of a 23 year old."


I live and play near Stanford and Berkeley and you are usually in my game. You give your money to the guys who play every hand because you refuse to believe they play every hand, even after you watch and watch and watch it. You give your money to me because you refuse to believe that I can check-behind you on the turn and fold on the river when you flop top pair, so you keep calling my raises from the blinds, ready to trap the aggressive reputation, refusing to accept that you are so transparent. You give your money to the house because that's what houses do, they collect money, and that's why everyone loses. But you won't accept that starting every session stuck $100 matters.


Then you go home wondering what happened.


It's an infection, what you have, and it touches every aspect of life, it just happens to be more obvious and more deadly at poker, and yes, it's related to age, and therefore curable, with time, and thought. Entitlement disease. You might be incurable. No way to know. Only time and effort will tell.


Best medicine: low expectations.


Tommy

I am impressed by the fact that the pro's (Vince and Tommy) tell it like it is. You are an intelligent and sensitive person. This can be a dangerous combination.


One book I suggest you read is Feeny's "Inside the Mind". His poker odessey is something that I am trying to emulate. During Feeny's first two years, he read more than he played. He was a low limit player at first, and gradually moved up (and down) as his bankroll allowed. He was naturally self-critical in his assessment of his game, generally negative.


Good luck to you. Its tough. When I was your age...well... good luck!


Jonathan

At least your being honest with yourself and admitting your doing something wrong. That is a big step. One that many bad players never admit to. So they go on forever never changing there game and never improving thinkinthey are just the unluckiest players alive,and when will it change? When in fact they may hadbeen the luckiest players alive when they had there good run,but luck usually doesn't last forever. Its good to have confidence at the table,but when your thinking more about outplaying the best player at the table instead of making the most money you can out of the game there is a problem. I like to try to avoid the ego wars at the table and just think about winning as much as i can on every given session. Wanting recognition is natural. But it shouldn't be your main concern when at the tables. But if you need that recognition,the way to earn that is by playing a solid winning game and by beating the games day in and day out. This will gain you respect, not trying to run over people. The only people that will think you are great when gettin lucky trying to run people over are the bad players not knowing any better. The good players chuckle to themselves and say its only a matter of time until your broke. If you want this to be your living your main concern should be on how to mkae the most money out of the game. Not how to outplay the best player in the game. Usually the way to make the most out of a game is to avoid the players who will make less mistakes then the others. You want to play pots aginst the players who will make lots of mistakes. It doesn't mean you think the best player is better than you it just means its not a profitable play to keep butting heads with each other. Especially if he is playing better hands than you and you are playing crap trying to outplay him.

Thanks for the reply. About recognition...I'm not sure that I really crave it. More likely, I really like it, and that builds on itself.


And it's importance to me has dropped DRAMATICALLY in the last twelve hours.


Thanks again. Some introspection to follow /images/smile.gif


Josh

Tommy...


When in your post you talk about "you", I assume that you are talking about the generic 23 year old, right? The only time I played with you was at the WSOP last year.


But yeah, there's too much entitlement disease in me. Way.


Josh

Brett -


The example with Paul only further festers my ego problem.


A couple days after the tourny, I swung by the bike to play in another tourny, and I picked up the "daily report", writeup of the tourny.


As well as giving a recap of the tourny, there is a biography of Paul on the back. The last paragraph is:


"Tonight, he had an 'up and down, mostly up' evening and was all in with two tables left. He said he played his usual game, knew most of the players and could adapt his style accordingly. He though that third-place finisher Wentlandt (me!!), who he did not know well, played especially well."


For a kid who has ego problems, seeing this in print from the guy who ended up as CARDPLAYER's limit hold'em player of the year, well, it just added to the problem.


But he seems like a very nice guy.


And the hand in particular wasn't a misplay by him. He had gone all in a few hands earlier, and won with Ace high. We were 6 handed, and he had raised 4 or 5 hands in a row. He raised UTG, and I three-bet in the SB with AKh. The rest is history, but I think his raise preflop is automatic, and well, the 7 on the flop is the luck that us players curse regularly.


Josh

I had no idea the (sniff, sniff) poker community (weep, weep) had such a big, big collective heart!


Is everyone getting ready to do an intervention?


Why don't we all pool our resources and replenish the guy's stake? That would be such a kind gesture.


With the nurturing good intentions of all of us, we can only pray to God that this (sniff, sniff) HEROIC young poker player has not lost the faith.


Go toward the light, Josh!

No, I wouldn't say it's a sin to wish you well.


I mean, hell...I wish you well. Really.


Just so long as you're not in my game. Ever.


But more than that, I'd say it's a little over the top, all of this "benevolently yours..." and "just keep your chin up" crap.


Read a book. Read a bunch of books. Plug your leaks. Stop implying that it's God's fault or that your fate is losing. It's hard to listen to someone say that they know it's their fault, but they do it anyway. But that on top of that, they also have really bad luck.


Junkies talk like that. And junkies always WANT something.


But I do wish you well. I'm just not falling all over myself making a big show out of it.


Like they say from time to time at the table...


Get it fixed.

You've taken a realist look. I hope you benefit from it.


I was 27 when I discovered reading. I regret that I was such an idiot prior to that.

'But I am incredibly logical, have a photographic memory, very perceptive, very patient, and in general, very disciplined. '


well, to be blunt, this is just a guess or a wish on your part.


the reason i say this is because school is pretty much a stroke job. (was going to add some stuff but ill just omit it)


at your age i thought i was pretty smart too, until i started playing chess. i studied, played tournaments (won a couple, but you know, you play people in your own class, they have like B section where you play all the B players), really really tried, and guess what, i barely made it to an A player. (rankings go D,C,B,A,expert, master)


my point is that youve never really done anything intellectually strenuous.


i suggest (i mean, if youve really got a photographic or even a good spatial memory then youll have a natural inclination for chess) you take up chess, visit a chess club thats a member of USCF (united states chess federation, www.uschess.org (http://www.uschess.org)), and see what its like to really struggle intellectually.


also theres 0% luck in chess (in tournaments theres a little luck in the pairings, you know, but not in the game itself (unless you count who draws the white pieces)).


its like one night a week, and you would probably be watching tv anyway.


not trying to put you down in any way, mind you, just suggesting something that i really enjoyed. also youll really get a good idea of whats its like to develop logical thinking and then apply it in a combative environment. hard to describe, but lets just say its the opposite of thinking , hey, lets see how far my natural talent will take me. no, its more like, i need to understand all the thinking that has gone before in order to make the most of what ive got.


brad

Brad -


I used to play chess. Not competitively, mind you, but for fun in middle school and high school.


I really dislike the game. Maybe its the slow pace. Maybe its that in any given 5 minute span, not much changes. In poker, you get two new hands in 5 minutes.


Who knows. Maybe a time will come up when I do take up the game seriously. But it won't be any time soon.


"my point is that youve never really done anything intellectually strenuous"


Lastly, as for not doing anything intellectually challenging, I'd disagree. I won't go into details, but I've seen nothing since I graduated college that remotely compares to college, and I saw nothing in college that remotely compared to being a national level debater in high school. You want head to head competition with a finite set of moves, take up chess. You want head to head competition with an infinite number of moves, take up debate. And oh yeah, I went to the college that the Princeton Review called the most academically challenging school in America. And now, I'm a research physicist...not the toughest job in america by a longshot, but not a cakewalk.


Josh

Josh,


There's nothing wrong with stepping back and taking some time away from poker-I've done the same thing, after playing chess for almost thirty years.


Last year, I went to Foxwoods to play chess

(and some poker, I must admit!!).After a poor result on the chequered board, I gave it up, and

haven't played a live opponent since last Easter.

It had become too frustrating for me;I've been a master since 1981, and a life master since 1986, and I didn't feel I was playing as well as I could.


When will I play again, you ask? I'm not sure

myself. Poker has become something more than the weekly game at home-like you, I want to improve my game.


Read Ray Zee's essay on the growth of a poker

player- it was scary to read that from beginning to end, and it sounds as if you've gone through much of what he describes therein.


Above all, you're not a loser- you've been trying.Try to keep things in perspective, and who

the hell cares what others think of your experience, etc? In many cases, I suspect envy, which you'll find as you rise up the ladder.


perfidious

Brad,


Your assessment of school is on the mark- I might have made it through high school if I hadn't

died of boredom. I'm glad that period of my life

is many years behind me, though I might do things

differently if I had to do them again.


In your post, you speak of having a photographic memory as being useful in playing

chess; I'm sure having that attribute has helped

me, but there's a lot more to playing well than that.


Who knows- maybe if I'd worked at it a little harder, I could have become more than a 2300 player, but now I've turned attention to playing better poker(see my reply to Josh's post below).


perfidious

'I really dislike the game. Maybe its the slow pace. Maybe its that in any given 5 minute span, not much changes.'


well, the beauty of it is that after you get to be a B player (basically you dont hang any pieces, (let them be captured by mistake) ) you can play a lot of blitz chess (with a chess clock) where each player has 5 minutes each (or less) to make all their moves.


'And now, I'm a research physicist'


that is so cool.

just out of curiosity , do you have an advanced degree?


that was part of what i omitted (if you study math or physics, etc. then what i said doesnt apply).


anyway, sounds like you really have a great and rewarding career, so it seems like in your case the potential harm in poker vastly outweighs its benefits.


brad

Good post...


We've got some similarities, you and I. I'm a 24 yr old student, and I started playing about 2 yrs ago. I make the foxwoods 10-20 and 15-30 my home, when I can get away from my studies (which ain't as often as I'd like, obviously). Like you, I think I'm better than almost anyone when I sit down, and usually my results show it. Ego? That's my middle name. Fuel for my ego? Not as much as you have had- I don't post here often, no one knows me, and no one knows about my roll but my friends. I'm keeping it that way for now. Anonymity is a good thing sometimes, but I to crave the recognition. Read on...


We've got some differences, too. Obviously, first, the limits we have played at. You've touched limits that I'm still aspiring to- on some days I think the skill ain't lacking, only the bankroll which is climbing there, eventually. I've read pretty much every poker book on the market- good starting points, ones from which I have since departed, but hey, you never know what you'll learn, it's good to see IN WRITING that the beats will come from others who have been there, and some things (like TOP) are just fundamental, any way you cut it.


I've got two things for you- a tip and an ego booster (you sure you want that?).


THe tip- if you need your ego stroked, set some time aside to play with the buds you must surely have. I have no doubt you'd shred them week in, week out. Play micro limits or whatever they can afford- the point of this game is a)hang with your friends, b) if they actually get good enough that some meaningful poker discussion can ensue, so much the better- some of my friends are half decent (mostly thru my teaching, to be honest, but hey, everyone's got a different take and it's good to see other sides of an equation at ALL TIMES, even if they're wrong /images/smile.gif) and c) use THEM to stroke your ego. I'm ashamed to admit I do this, lol. Once they get to the point where they understand "good" play, it's unlimited fuel for your ego. Terrific read on the river? Muck face up and watch them ooh and aah and say how you're gonna win a bracelet. You KNOW you shouldn't be letting people at the cardroom know you can make these laydowns- but home games are a really cheap way to get the same "grafication" and recognition. Hell, have the time they WANT to know why you played a hand the way you did, and you can dissect it for them ad infinitum. Save the ego boosting for the home game, and walk in to the casino with your game face on. You didn't mention this as a problem, but if you need to tilt out every once in a while, the home game is the perfect spot to do it in. I play 69 religiously at home, just so I can turn over "happy meal" if I win. Cost over the whole night? Probably 10$, and I got a great reputation. lol


Here's the ego boost- if you've truly never read a book, MY GAWD. You're gonna be scary. Glad you're working the west coast instead o' the east. If we played I'd probably get killed- I tend to see people like myself and think "he's young, probably read a book or two and think's he's hot shit". People who APPEAR inexperienced are generally my favorite prey, b/c they usually are. One more thing- your (our) youth can work for us too- good players who recognize good play respect me so I don't get run over, and bad players think I'm just some young idiot and play with me to the river when I'm made. It's a good thing, trust me. Stop betting into those calling stations, read up, and I'll read about you at some point in the WSOP.


Good luck


Leon

I found that when I stopped caring about poker deeply, I started playing a lot better.


Most of us need to have our egos stroked. If you use poker for that, you're likely to be (1) disappointed, and (2) not play very well, because you get your ego on the table when it should be just your chips and that little painted D&D figurine you use as a card protector.


Find something in your life about which you can truly care. I find that people (the right ones - choose carefully) work very well for this. Because they can care back. If they don't care back, then you didn't choose carefully.


When you have this (and not before), go back to the poker table. Everything will look different. Wins will seem nice, but not life-affirming. Losses will be unfortunate, but not catastrophic [1].


Bad beats will be largely non-events in your life. They just won't matter very much, and you'll see quite clearly how they will come back to you seven-fold. You will not be rude or a jerk, because, well, you're not a rude jerk. That you're at a poker table is immaterial to your behavior.


When you get raised on the turn, you will consider carefully if maybe your overpair is no good. Either it is, or it is not. You will not attempt to demean the guy with 65o who flopped two pair by re-raising him. You will contemplate your outs and proceed accordingly. You have only chips and a D&D figurine on the table - not your ego or self-worth.


All of this is likely to make you a better poker player. It will indubitably make you a happier person.


Regards, Lee


[1] This assumes that you're not playing for stakes which put your fundamental financial survival at risk. If you're doing that, you're not as smart as I thought you were.

I wear Drizzt's Ring of Hold'em Poker which gives me +4 to flopping sets and lowers my bad beat saving roll by 3.


~D

"Mike l., if you are reading this, here is a side note to you. You seem to me to be about exactly where I was in september and october. You are having the success that I was having. I'm a huge fan of yours, and I wish you the very best. Just realize that if you don't keep improving and studying the game and confess to be a student, it can all come crashing down. Bad cards are tough to overcome, and I hope you never end up where I am now. Good luck."


i appreciate your concern and i feel for you and your losing streak. i think you will come out of it. i dont think we're quite in the same place though. ive been gambling semi-professionally for a few years now (counting cards before turning to poker) so im maybe a little more familiar with the ups and downs that accompany such a job. i also run a small business which has some similarities in terms of responsibility. what you say about always remaining a student of the game is crucial i think. i try to always keep that in the forefront of my mind. im constantly reminded that my game has several weaknesses and im always trying to work on these. nevertheless i dont know how well i wouldve handled myself 5 years ago (when i was 23), my maturity level and ability to handle stress well was even lower then. perhaps you are much mature, you may even be more matrue then me already, i dont know. emotional maturity has a lot to do with beating hold em long term. guys like tommy and andy fox have plenty to spare, you can tell this from their posts. im not sure how nicely i can say this, but your very long posts lamenting your beats dont convey the same level of emotional security and maturity (many times my posts dont either). in short, i dont think this sort of wallowing is constructive. you would be better served, i think, by posting at least 5 hands from your last session and asking what we think of your play. pick ones where you think you played questionably not ones where you know where you went wrong. post some hands you won and think you played great as well, perhaps you will be told otherwise. try leaving the commentary about how youre doing out of it for awhile. good luck.

"Stop implying that it's God's fault or that your fate is losing."


YES. this is the best criticism youll hear worm. take it to heart. reread john feeney's book and if you havent read it then buy it and dont play again until you read it twice. read zen and the art of poker too.


there are so many people who play compulsively and they play to LOSE. they play to prove to the world that they are losers and that their luck is just worse than everyone elses. it's very sick, but we see it every day. there's a guy named howard that plays 6-12 at HP and plays at commerce too sometimes and he fits this description to a T. dont become that guy, anyone would be better off dead i think.

dont play 9-18 anymore, it's a waste of time and a trap. play 15-30 or up or dont play. the games at commerce are about the softest best 15 games ever conceived.


also, stay away from tournaments unless you really relish losing and like flushing your money down a black hole. (this advice subject to change when TPFAP comes out).

Well put.


A couple things about this post and all of its followups.


1. Losing streaks can be long.

2. Having been through a lot (including a 1996


bankruptcy), I share you're pain.

3. Step back--maybe stay off poker for an undetermined period of time. Come back at some unplanned moment.

4. Also, consider card-counting at blackjack and sports betting. You can win at those also. It helps to have more than one skill.

5. Try practicing your game online.

[Clarkmeister]

Some more stuff that may help you put things in perspective.

gl Josh.

[Mikey]

I'm your age 23 years old......and I feel the way that you felt right now and I'm not afraid to admit it.

I'm arrogant and I think I know it all but I do have fear about what can actually happen.

I can relate to you so much, but I just want to let you know that you realize that you have a problem.

You aren't in denial and that's probably the biggest step to overcome, there are many friends of mine, who play cards and are long term losers because they refuse to read a book, accept friendly advice, because of big Ego problems, basically DENIAL.

You are taking a great approach, an academic approach to the game, read those books, study, memorize the odds, use logic to figure out when you aren't beat and when you aren't.

But do you know what the single most important thing to overcome in this game is, that is discipline, I don't care how great of a card player and how much you read people, and how good you think you are...if you don't have discipline, you can't win!

Last night I took a ride to the Taj with a friend and I regulate myself to play for 4 solid hours, that's it, win or lose I'm playing my best best poker for 4 solid hours Period. The reason why....is because after a while I start to lose my discipline.

The reason why I'm trying to be a little more conservative now......by only playing 4 hours is because I don't want to be worn out, I want to be a winning player. I'm not going to play marathon sessions. AND I DRIVE 2 HOURS EACH WAY TO THE CASINO!!!!!


I mean there is so much more to this game than most people think and you are realizing it and that is good.

You know what you have to do. DO IT!!! Don't talk about it DO IT!!

-on a side note, the best poker book I think I have ever read that deals away from strategy of course, is ZEN and the ART OF POKER. MG in NJ recommended it to me and it has opened new doors for me. Great book I encourage you to read it and understand it and REREAD IT.

These books you are going to read, don't just read them....reread them.

Good luck brother.

[Josh W]

WTF? Did you read my response to Duke's post?

[Clarkmeister]

Don't know what you are "WTF"ing me for. I saw you talking about tilting and burning off chips and I thought rereading your own words might be a splash of cold water that you could use.

I have found that nothing is as instructive to me as things I myself wrote in a different place, a different time. I would be shocked if reading these old posts didn't make you highly uncomfortable. I'd also be shocked if they didn't help.

Again, gl.

[Josh W]

It didn't help a bit. And it didn't make me uncomfortable. See, what happened a year ago is history. I learned from it. I only have one serious regret in life, and I assure you it has nothing to do with poker or a dollar sign.

And if you read my thread (your consistency of not reading everything is amazing), you know that I wasn't looking for answers, didn't have questions, and was trying to write something light-hearted. I admitted failure to such a goal in a response.

I fully believe that your motivations were good hearted. Not a doubt in my mind. But your approach was apalling.

I started a thread, and failed in my goal. And as soon as I had the opportunity, I owned up to that fact.

You failed miserably in a goal. And as soon as you had the opportunity, you retorted with a smartass response. Maybe it's just 'luck', because of a (one-time) small sample size.

Or maybe it's something about who we are as people. It's your turn to decide.

Josh (my name)

[MCS]

Josh, what are you snapping about?

Your last post strikes me as hypersensitive, contentious, and arrogant.

Maybe I don't know your history or something. But after your seemingly unprovoked whining, I don't really care either.

[brad]

what is a gummyworm, btw?

[AWalton]

My hats off to you, and you deserve the kudos for waking up and coming to your senses I had to do it at one point too. I have two friends who are major league ball players - one who will be in the hall of fame, and one who's played for 9 teams in 13 years and whos name nobody knows. Both played college ball together. The future hall of famer was the college player of the year, the other was figting for a spot in the pitching rotation the whole time he was in school. Both of them spent time in the minors, and for good reason. They had more to learn than any 22 year old baseball stud could ever fathom. And, all these years later, they're STILL learning. One still takes BP at EVERY possible opportunity, and the other is learning to throw a knuckle ball more because he knows it'll add 2 more years as he's now 35. At one point or another, the hall of famer admitted that he didn't know if he'd ever make it to the majors... for exactly the same reasons you just laid out. He did.

What you, and I and everyone at this level are understanding at our own pace, is that it's constant work - reading, computer, playing, watching games without playing... all of that stuff adds small advantages to your game. 30 years from now, if you still remember this time in your life, you'll still be learning.

Good luck to you.

[mikelow]

[Clarkmeister]

mikelow,

Let it go. What is your problem?

In a thread not too long ago you told both Josh and myself to shut up, despite posting your own thread on the issue, and you still continue to come in and stir the pot. You are the ultimate hypocrite.

Take some of your own advice and STFU.

I mistakenly thought this thread would help Josh. He made it clear he would like this thread to disappear. Why can't you honor his wishes?